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ChabadU Philosophy Election 2012: A Jewish Perspective

Class 4: Health Care

Election 2012: A Jewish Perspective

By Nochum Mangel

ChabadU

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Class 4: Health Care: Election 2012: A Jewish Perspective

Who is responsible to pay for health care? Is health insurance a personal obligation or a community responsibility?

Handouts:	Election 2012 (4) Healthcare
See Also:	What Does the Torah Say About Obamacare?
Topics:	Government, Healthcare, Politics

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Rabbi Nochum Mangel directs Chabad-Lubavitch of Greater Dayton, Ohio.

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FactsRule Las Vegas, NV September 21, 2012

Judith, Obombercare reduces Medicare payments It reduces them by 716 Billion. Democrats have been howling during elections for decades that accusing Republicans who have tried to fix the broke & now destructive federal programs yet forced through a 2.3 trillion dollar bureaucracy that will change Medicare as we know it, while accusing Republicans of wanting to do what they did! One question they & you won't answer: if we couldn't afford doctors, hospitals, medicine, insurance, & whatever other healthcare; how are we then going to afford doctors, hospitals, medicine, insurance, whatever other healthcare AND A HUGE GOVT. BUREAUCRACY, TOO!!!!!!???????? Reply

Siobhan Ranchita, CA(Anza Borrego) September 18, 2012

Have you had a Stroke, Heartatack, Cancer(any type), High Blood Preasure, RH(arthritis) To All who have survived the above listed and in some cases it is in your family history, you must have unlimited financial resource, and if you have a VERY good health insurance, may you never lose it. For you will not be able to join another plan. My son had just returned from S Korea where he was stationed & leaving for Fort Hood & who knows where. His car was T-Boned and he had Major Head injuries, 3 broken ribs. With Tri Care since he was still active duty it was covered, if he had been a Vet he would of reached "Lifetime Limit" in 2 months. He survived for 13 months. I would never have been able to cover his bills. For me the Health insurance I had when I worked with circle K the coverage that I had paid for ambulance ride after I had been in head on. Many jobs in my area will only hire part time so they do not have to offer health insurance, many would work 40 hours for 3-4 weeks then be cut to 14 hours for 2 weeks. Well let them remove"Everyone Must" have. Keep the rest Reply

Judith Harrow Hillsborough, NC. September 16, 2012

Obamacare does NOT cut $716 million from Medicare beneficiaries . It will be obtained from insurance companies and other providers, and by insuring against Medicare fraud and waste. As a registered nurse working with cancer patients, I see first-hand how medical expenses can quickly impoverish a family coping with a catastrophic illness. It is heart-breaking to witness. Obamacare is far from perfect, but it is, at least, a first step in the right direction. Reply

Jan September 16, 2012

Obamacare How can any G--d-fearing person believe this is a mandate when this health care will mandate murder and child sacrifice through abortion and euthanasia for people over 70. I listened to a neurosurgeon on radio show after he had attended a health conference in DC say the government will decide what if any health care a person should receive after 70yrs of age. Maybe that is why G-ds Word charges an individua with their own care. In order for any forced health care to work the foundation would have to be G-d's Word Reply

Anonymous Oviedo September 15, 2012

Questions I have to say, there are parts of this teaching that I agree with, but some parts I have difficulty with. For instance, what if the mandated insurance puts you at hardship? Many of the laws are geared toward large corporations and do not take consideration of smaller businesses. My family likes to use an integrative approach to medicine which incorporates alternative medicine with standard medicine when needed. They do not take insurance and can not take insurance because the standard medical community does not recognize the integrative approach. Therefore my family would have to pay BOTH costs. I agree that all people should have emergency hospital coverage, but basic healthcare that can be paid out of pocket, I am not quick to get on board because I simply in many cases can't use the "regular medicine" approach due to reactions to medications. Also, what if the mandated insurance requires you to pay for something that you believe is morally wrong? For example abortion? Thanks. Reply

Shmuel Klatzkin Dayton September 12, 2012

application of halacha to the secular state Rivka, your question opens up room for so much more discussion. We did not presume to offer decisive rulings in Jewish law for how governments must work. Our method was to look at what Jewish law mandates for Jewish communities and then to propose that as a model. Models never exactly correspond to the varying realities they inform, and adjustments must always be made.
Nonetheless, what remains true for all is that when one looks at one's fellow as someone created in the image of G-d, one is joined to that other person by bonds of responsibility. We should be properly critical of governments and all power, but that does not relieve of us of the responsibility to help our fellows. We must find the best way to do so, being relentlessly practical and caring at the same time. And that will always involve organization.
Chabad's worldwide experience shows how one can be organized and locally responsive at the same time, something necessary today. Reply

Lisa Glendale September 11, 2012

Health Care I understand what you are saying and agree with much of it however,If you look at the Health Care Plan you would find so many things in it against Torah you could do hours and hours of lectures. It would be so great if the plan actually helped people and gave them a choice but what it does is makes you pay money to be on a plan that takes from Senior Citizens- Obamacare cuts Medicare by $716 billion and not only that Obamacare plays G-d and will deny care to people that they feel will die anyway so they do not want to pay the money to save their life-and all Jews should know that is totally against Torah and HaShem! Reply

FactsRule Las Vegas, NV September 10, 2012

Take your logic a step further, Rabbi If a community acts as an insurance company, who's going to keep the extra money collected? If 100 people make up a community & each gives $10 a year for insurance for all, that's $1,000/year collected. The actual medical care for all will only cost $500, which explains how insurance companies make money. In a small community the leaders/collectors can then apply the extra $500 to the next year & collect say only $5/person the 2nd year, just in case medical expenses are higher than the 1st year. The only thing I can see your class teaching is that such an arrangement is o.k. according to the Torah, as you said. But, as Rivka in Yitzhar mentioned, this is a federal idea that comes after over a 200 trillion dollars in unfunded mandates incl. state pensions; where many are exempt from paying their share; implemented with 716 billion from Medicare recipients for 10 years, & with a trillion dollar tax that will destroy the entire country; this collective impoverishment against the Torah. Reply

ValMordkovich Boca Raton September 8, 2012

Healthcare debate It all comes down to understanding what is health insurance mandate, a form of tax, or just a service that we may or may not purchase. The speaker chose to understand it as a tax. But we can be just as responsible in front of Gd for our lives by not buying it, by simply paying our own bills and donating. And the other thing is that the whole political discussion is about f-e-d-e-r-a-l government. States can decide if they want healthcare mandated. Would'n that be the decision of the community? Or we have to be a part of many communities and pay all the taxes they want to inflict upon us? And what is left for us after it, isn't taking care of our own health primary after all? Reply

Joyce Elmore, Ohio September 7, 2012

Election 2012 (4) Healthcare Thank you Rabbi Mangel for these great classes. Reply

Catherine NY, NY September 7, 2012

questionable fees I understand that you are stating what is written as the proper thing to do in the eyes of God. However, the insurance that people may have to buy is questionable. What does this insurance insure? How far will it help you? Is it worth the fee? There are so many particulars to be answered. If we cannot be privy to the ObamaCare insurance rules how can we agree to sign this legislation. Would you buy a horse or car without ever seeing it first? Therefore, you are not answering the real question. Sure it is proper to pay some amount into the pot so your health care is covered. That really is not the problem. The real problem is:what are you purchasing with your money??? I for one am very suspicious that the public is not given the right to see what is in this new legislation. If insurance companies would be regulated as to the amount of premiums asked, and the doctors and hospitals were regulated as to what they can charge, everyone would then be doing their share. Reply

Rivka Yitzhar, Israel September 7, 2012

Who is the community? Thought provoking. The question that nagged me thoughout is of which community are the rabbis speaking .The organised Jewish community or the state? It seems to me that these decisions concern a functioning Jewish community. Are those not Jewish bound by halacha to save me? Should we hold the state to halacha or urge it in that direction? This has implications that are far reaching for many social issues. Reply

Class 4: Health Care: Election 2012: A Jewish Perspective

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