Tekhelet: The Mystery of the Long-Lost Biblical Blue Thread

Tzitzit with the Tekhelet strings attached.

What Is Tekhelet (Techelet)?

In ancient times, the tallit would have two kinds of threads attached to the corners, white wool (or whatever the garment was made of) and blue wool. This blue wool, known as tekhelet, was the hallmark of nobility, and in line with the tallit’s purpose of reminding the Jew that he is a member of G‑d’s “kingdom of priests.”

We read in the Torah:1 “Speak to the children of Israel and you shall say to them that they shall make for themselves fringes (tzitzit) on the corners of their garments, throughout their generations, and that they shall affix a thread of tekhelet on the fringe of each corner.”

The verse contains two requirements. One is to affix (white) fringes on the corners of a four-cornered garment, and the other is to add a thread of tekhelet to each corner. These two requirements are independent of each other. When tekhelet is available, we are enjoined to add a tekhelet fringe to the tzitzit; when unavailable, we fulfill the mitzvah with plain white fringes.

The unique blue dye was made from a byproduct of a sea creature known as the chilazon, which lives in the Mediterranean Sea.

So why is it not so common today to have a tekhelet fringe on the tallit or tzitzit?

At a certain point in history, approximately 1000 years ago, the chilazon, which was always hard to come by—to the extent that the Talmud2 tells us that it surfaced only once every seventy years—became unavailable altogether. After a while, its exact identity became unknown.

The Quest for Tekhelet

Rabbi Y.I. Herzog (Mihael Almagor/Wiki)

There have been many who have tried to rediscover the identity of the chilazon. Most notable among them were the Radziner rebbe, Rabbi Gershon Henoch Leiner (1839–1891), and Israeli Chief Rabbi Y. I. Herzog (1888–1959).

Rabbi Leiner maintained that the cuttlefish was the lost chilazon, and proceeded to produce and distribute dye produced from this fish.

Recently, the marine snail Murex trunculus has been identified as possibly being the elusive chilazon, and many use its dye.

A murex snail (Credit: H. Krisp/Wiki)

Many, however, view the findings of these groups as uncertain. In addition, the kabbalists write that our current lack of tekhelet is consistent with our diminished spiritual state.3 As such, most continue to wear only white fringes, awaiting the coming of Moshiach, when Elijah himself will guide us in uncovering the identity of the chilazon.

This was the position of Rabbi Sholom DovBer, the fifth Rebbe of Lubavitch, who maintained that tekhelet will not return until the coming of the Messiah.4

« Previous

When Is a Tallit Worn?

Picking a Perfect Tallit (FAQ)

Footnotes

Numbers 15:38.

Talmud, Menachot 44a.

Shulchan Aruch HaAriZal, Hichot Tzitzit 7.

Shaalot Uteshuvot Torat Shalom 1.

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106 Comments

Joseph Ct. June 7, 2023

I've seen blue lobsters.... Reply

Jordan Minnesota December 7, 2022

We may not have found the dye of techelet with any certainty but is there any issue in the halacha with using a blue thread in our tzitzit even if it isn't necessarily the true techelet? Reply

Orah March 1, 2023

in response to Jordan :

Yes, unfortunately it is a halachic issue. If it isn't proper techelet, it can't be worn in tzitzit. They have to be pure white. Reply

Rafi Hecht Toronto June 7, 2023

in response to Orah:

With all due respect, who says? If one holds like Rambam, then if one has a half a string blue and the other half white, the white half should suffice for Lavan. Furthermore, the whole Kala Ilan matter is twofold: a) it speaks about dishonesty and that Hashem will tell the difference between the two (based on Sifri), and b) Chazal only warned against blue coming from the plant. If Chazal had issues with any other blue dye producing creatures, why wouldn't they have warned us against them? The fact that the didn't shows that only plant based dyes are what to be wary of. Reply

Menashe London July 25, 2022

It seems to me that the Rebbe Rashab did not say that " the chilozon will not return until the coming of moshiach". What he said was that techeiles will not return. This is a very important distinction. As if Rav Herzog was right and the true Mollusc from which the techeiles is derived is not the Murex but Janthina, then the problem is that we have the chilazon but nobody has ever been able to yet make the Dye extracted from the Janthina stick to wool without fading. The last letters by Rav Herzog written by him in the 1950s clearly show that he had been working with leasing chemists around Europe in an effort to get the Janthina dye to stick. To date that has yet to be accomplished.
I further note that in Shaarei Halocho uMinhag Orach Chaim Chelek Aleph section 12 ,the late Lubavitcher Rebbe zatsal states that it is techeiles that will not return until moshiach comes and not as per your article the chilozon. Reply

Menachem Posner July 26, 2022

in response to Menashe :

Thanks for writing. I tweaked the text of the article. Reply

Hillel Maine March 24, 2023

in response to Menashe :

If I may, aren't we in the time of moshiach currently? Didn't the Rebbe, obm, state we are in the time of moshiach now? Couldn't techeiles discovery occur at this time? It seems events occur consecutively to a known destination/major event. Reply

HECTOR ZUNIGA North York April 12, 2023

in response to Menashe :

Mollusc, snail are no kosher to eat, it, Q: ! still can be use to die a blue color on the Tallit treats ? Reply

York Kennedy Berkeley, CA October 3, 2023

in response to Menachem Posner:

I would add that the book The Rarest Blue is an excellent reference for this conversation. Reply

john prusak minneapolis July 11, 2022

Tekhelet, the blood had to be exposed to the sun, The ultraviolet light created a chemical reaction that made it blue. This was discovered when the stink inside was so bad it had to go outdoors. After a few hours the reaction change took place. Reply

Rabbi Jay F Silverman Delray Beach July 11, 2022

in response to john prusak:

Shalom John,

Thanks for sharing your discovery. Murex snails possess a gland which contains the source of Tekhelet. Dibromoindigo, which originates from glandular secretions of a fresh snail, bonds chemically to wool when put into solution in a reduced state (vat dyeing). In the presence of sunlight, the dibromoindigo debrominates to indigo, leaving color-fast blue wool. You can learn more at Tekelet.com. Shalom. Reply

Roslyn Madrid Kitwanga October 25, 2023

in response to john prusak:

In my fieldwork in Mexico, about traditional use of snails (Purpura, a close relative of Murex), the dyers applied the secretions from the snail directly onto cotton yarn. Exposure to the sun enabled the reaction that changed a clear whitish substance to a colourfast purple dye. Sure, it's a smelly substance (some claim that in the Native language, Mixtec, the words for 'dye' and 'garlic' are synonymous.) Using this traditional method does not kill the snail, and it may be (as the dyers say) 'milked' a few days later. Harvesting the snails for mass processing is not only stinky, it's likely the reason why Murex is extinct in the Mediterranean area. Your argument is a circular one, and makes no practical sense. Reply

Salar Los Angeles January 21, 2022

I believe written torah is more important and for our generation, the only untouched words of God.
One fundamental question. If the blue color must come from chilazon, a sea creature found in northern Israel, then how did Jews made it before entering the Israel, in the desert?
Does it mean that Mosheh and his generations did not do the mitzvah?

Or does it mean that using the chilazon as a requirement is later made up by human who modified the God's command.

Please shed a light if you know the answer. Reply

Rabbi Jay F Silverman Delray Beach January 24, 2022

in response to Salar:

There are two Torah's. One is written and one is Oral. The Oral Torah was eventually written down in what is known as the Mishnah and Gemora, also known as the Talmud. There are other books as well including the Midrash and Kabbalah. The Written Torah can not be understood completely without them.

The chilazon is found in many places, not just in northern Israel. Moshe and the Children of Israel certainly did the mitzvah. The parshah of Korach goes into this quite clearly as Korach taunted Moshe about whether a completely blue tekelet dyed garment still needed the tzitzit. Thanks for asking and Shalom! Reply

Rafael Hecht Toronto February 17, 2022

in response to Salar:

Historically we have no clue if and how Techeiles from a Chilazon found its way to the Midbar (desert). Some say that there were different sources of Techeiles especially when making items for the Mishkan. But you also have other mysterious creatures like the Tachash, which one interpretation is that it was a dolphin. Good luck finding that in the desert!

One other thing I can suggest is that Techeiles was available in Egypt and that was among the spoils the Israelites took. Egypt spans up to the Mediterranean sea so it's not like the creature source wasn't available at all.

To reiterate, the Torah isn't a history book and there are a lot of holes the Torah AS A HISTORY BOOK left out, this being one of them. Reply

Judy Freed Beer Sheva February 18, 2022

in response to Salar:

The Israelites took many things with them from Egypt. They were told to ask their Egyptian neighbors for precious objects including clothing when leaving Egypt. Among the things they took with them were various raw materials. But they would have had various dyestuffs of their own anyway because they kept sheep and cattle, and no doubt spun the wool and wove their own cloth for their own basic needs. Egypt was a well developed regional power and trading center. Even if tchelet wasn't produced locally, it was available. Slaves in Egypt weren't penniless. They could and did own things. The Israelites weren't slaves of private Egyptians. They were working on the Pharoah's building projects. They entered Egypt with possessions - their herds and household goods. They were not deprived of these possessions during their enslavement. The average Egyptian worked on these projects for limited amounts of time as a form of taxation. The Israelites were drafted as a "permanent" workforce. Reply

John February 18, 2022

in response to Salar:

I've just heard that snails are not kosher yet we are using this unclean thing on our garments? Surly this isnt the correct blue right? Reply

Orah March 1, 2023

in response to Salar:

Salar your response sounds exactly like what a Christian would say. Why would people spend time providing a well-thought, halachic answer when you said twice in your comment that you don't accept rabbinic authority or Jewish research and knowledge? Those aren't the words of someone seeking to be educated about halacha and proper Jewish practice. Personally I wouldn't waste the time explaining, because I have seen SO many comments like yours, I already know what thought process and religious persuasion you're coming from. I would say that you need to start over from square one by unlearning a lot of things, and build up from there with the oversight of a real rabbi; but you're probably not Jewish. If you aren't, then you're not obligated in these mitzvot anyway so learning them is unnecessary. Non-Jews are only obligated in moral parts of the Torah. There are lessons in halachic rituals, etc, but you're not ready for that. If you're studying to convert, ask your rabbi. Reply

Rabbi Jay F Silverman Delray Beach February 22, 2022

in response to John:

Yes the chilazon is the correct snail. It is not kosher to eat it. Many non-kosher things are used for dying wool and other garments as well as for other purposes. Reply

Gideon Aronovich Geva Binyamin -Adam May 9, 2022

in response to John:

that's the difference between tefilin and tzitzit. Tefilin are a "Mitzvah Object" and must originate in Kosher. ציצת fringes(both white and thelet) are discarded respectfully but do not require burial.(gnizah) Reply

Gabriel Schecter Dallas May 18, 2022

in response to Gideon Aronovich:

Tefillin are the boxes with straps the orthodox and Hasidic Jews wear every morning. G-d had come to say about the wearing of not only Tefillin but also kippot.

Ezekiel 13:18 "and say: Thus said the Lord GOD: Woe to those who sew pads on all arm-joints and make headcovers for the head of every person, in order to entrap! Can you hunt down lives among My people, while you preserve your own lives?" Yes, that is correct. Reply

Heather Smith Bartlett, IL July 14, 2021

Considering how elusive this animal is, and eventually became very expensive to get. I wonder why nobody has considered the horseshoe crab? This animal has been here for a very long time, and has not changed. Its blood is blue already, and is now very expensive due to its properties in the pharmaceutical area with harvesting their blood to test medicine for bacteria. Now it is being used for the vaccines. However, they try to only harvest part of the blood and then send them back out, but some do not survive. Due to these facts, and the legend of the chilazon having certain qualities. It sure fits well! So, why are they over looked? Reply

Sam H. November 14, 2021

in response to Heather Smith:

Excellent question – my understanding is, if it's out there people probably have tried it. There are pretty well-funded organizations that have been trying for decades to perfect a reinvented tekhelet, so if another animal seems to fit the profile, they've definitely investigated it and either ruled it out (if they found it unacceptable based on what little we know) or opted to move forward with more promising candidates. Also, dye-wise, even though the blood of horseshoe crabs is blue, pigmentation in dying fabric is really tricky – it might not make a very good blue dye, even for a strikingly blue liquid. I'm not informed on the specifics of horseshoe crab chemistry or how it's fit in to the search for tekhelet so far, but I hope this helps clear things up. Reply

Heather Smith Bartlett November 23, 2021

in response to Sam H.:

One of the ways you know it is the right animal, is that you don't have to kill it. Snails you have to kill, horse shoe crab you don't. Reply

Rafael Hecht December 15, 2021

in response to Heather Smith:

Just the opposite: it's "blood" is better when it's alive than dead, as per ancient writings and the Gemara. If the snail died first, the dye quality would diminish greatly. Snails eventually die but are not immediately killed prior to the dye extraction. Reply

Roslyn Madrid BC, Canada January 22, 2022

in response to Heather Smith:

Original sources say that in Pacific Coastal Mexico, the traditional way to dye cotton yarn was to select an acacia branch, and use it to gently pry the 'Purpura' snails from the rocks in the intertidal zone, when the tide is out. The snail is removed from the substrate, then the dyer spits or blows on the snail to provoke it to emit a protective substance which, in a photoreactive process, oxidizes to dye the yarn a very colourfast purple dye. (Its chemical structure is like indigo, with an attached bromine atom. It can also produce strong blue or red colouring.) They put the snail back where they found it, and pour a bit of water over it, to help it re-attach. They continue along the coast. On the way back, they can again elicit dye from the snails. The word used to describe this process is translated as 'milking': it can be sustained indefinitely. Unfortunately, outsiders (mainly Japanese), and non-native fishermen use much more aggressive methods, putting the species at risk. Reply

Roslyn Madrid Kitwanga February 15, 2022

in response to Heather Smith:

I did fieldwork in Mexico some years ago, studying indigenous use of the snail 'Purpura pansa' to dye cotton yarn. Traditionally, the dyers would gently scrape the snail off its intertidal place, irritate it gently, by blowing or spitting on it.The snail would emit a protective ooze that turned strong purple with light and oxygen. The dyer would put the snail back, and pour some water over it. In the native Mixtec language, this process is called 'milking'. (This dye is very resistant to fading. Chemically, it's very similar to indigo, and a range of reddish to purple is possible, given the methods and tools used.) The dyers would walk for 2 or 3 days along the ocean, dyeing cotton. On their way back, the snails could be 're-milked'. It is not necessary to kill the snail in order to get its dye. Reply

Roslyn Madrid Kitwanga June 9, 2023

in response to Heather Smith:

My anthropological work in southern Mexico studied the use of snails (Purpura sp.) to dye cotton a fade-proof purple. Traditionally, the dyers would gently scrape a snail from a rock in the intertidal area of the Pacific ocean. They would spit or blow on the snail, to provoke it to release a defensive liquid, then dab it on the cotton. Then, the snail would be put back where it came from, and some water poured over it. This process is called 'milking' the snail; it was a renewable resource/process. After a few days, the snail could 'milked' again. Unfortunately, this dye is valued in other places, particularly Japan, and 'modern' (i.e. brutal/non-renewable) methods have made the snail extinct in some previously productive areas. I have posted on this site a more complete account. Reply

Heather Bartlett February 19, 2022

in response to Rafael Hecht:

Unlike the snails, horseshoe crabs can have their blood be carefully extracted and keep them alive. Snails can't be used like that and die. Plus, an important factor is that tekhelet blood is pricey, in which the horseshoe crab's blood is. You can also get more blood out of them vs many snails to equal the same amount. Reply

Rafael Hecht Toronto May 9, 2022

in response to Heather:

The issue with horseshoe crab blood is that it cannot be used as a dye. Reply

Gabriel Schecter July 13, 2021

If Hashem wanted the color techelet or blue as a fringe on one corner of garments, how did men decide that the color had to come from a traifa snails blood?

Why didn't Hashem mention this fact? Reply

Roslyn Madrid Kitwanga, BC, Canada May 19, 2020

I'm a textile historian, not a Talmudic scholar …. Many people are coming to acknowledge that tekhelet blue is derived from a kind of snail, but blue from other dyes has long been used instead. Chemically speaking, the only difference between tekhlet blue and the snail-derived 'royal purple' is a single bromium atom. It may be that the only difference, chemically, between tekhelet and indigo dye is that the first is from snails, and the latter from plants. The last date I've seen for tekhelet use was about 630 CE. It seems to me that that would have been about the time that Islam began its hegemony in that part of the world. Islam forbids that men wear costly jewellery, silken clothing, and expensively dyed fabrics. It may be that their conquest shut down Phoenician dyeworks. Reply

Doerte Berlin July 16, 2020

in response to Roslyn Madrid:

Hello I'm not a talmudic scholar, but as a historian very interested by this discussion about dyeing methods and textiles too. Above it says: "In ancient times, the tallit would have two kinds of threads attached to the corners, white wool (or whatever the garment was made of) and blue wool." Does anybody know if tallit in ancient times was maybe also made also out of fustian, a textile made of cotton and linen? Also I was wondering why no one in this group mentioned the thesis of Isaac HaLevy Herzog (Yitzhak Halevi Herzog (1888-1959), in which he already in 1913 suggested that tekhelet has been produced with the snail Murex trunculus, a theory apparently comfirmed for example by Ehud Spanier (1987), Otto Elsner (1992). Isn't it in your eyes a valid scientific theory or why doesn't anybody mention it here? thank you for mor info, Reply

Heather Smith Bartlett, IL December 20, 2021

in response to Roslyn Madrid:

So, it is possible that tekhelet could be from the horseshoe crab then. One of the descriptions would rule the snail out is that the animal would not be killed. You can bleed a horseshoe crab without killing it, but you can't do that with the snail. Plus, “A horseshoe crab's blood has a blue to blue-green color when exposed to the air. The blood is blue because it contains a copper-based respiratory pigment called hemocyanin.” (Orthodox Union, Chilazon).

I do like how you found out when this color kind of dyed (died) out... some pun intended.

I would like to know, since you do textiles. Can the horseshoe crabs blood work to dye material blue? Reply

RF Madrid Kitwanga July 17, 2020

in response to Doerte:

Cotton seems uncommon: there are 3 mentions of it in the Hebrew Bible. Leviticus 19:19 states that it is forbidden to wear shatnez —a mixture of wool and linen, but cotton is not mentioned. Apart from a few aging followers, the 'tekhelet' of Rabbi Herzog is not used. As I remember things, making it involved cooking up bull's blood in an iron pot. The result, the first 'artificial' dye, "Prussian blue". Snails are associated with mention of 'tekhelet'. The colour is like the colour of a blue sky, or blue jeans. Chemically speaking, there is no difference between indigotin from plant-derived indigo, and snail-derived ''tekhelet'. My master's thesis looked at snail dyeing in Mexico. Reply

Roslyn Madrid Kitwanga February 15, 2022

in response to Doerte:

Not quite. Rabbi Herzog, of blessed memory, was looking for tekhelet in cuttlefish. He was able to produce a blue colour, the colour and chemistry was Prussian Blue. If I remember, it was a reaction between the iron pot he cooked it in, and the protein of the cuttlefish. A similar result came from substituting oxblood for cuttlefish. I have heard that some people continue to use this colouration for their tekhelet. Almost worldwide, in a multitude of locations, there are other dye-bearing snails closely akin to Murex trunculus. In the introduction to my thesis, 'Mixtec Purpura Dyeing' this is discussed, as well as the work of Spanier, Elsner, and others. I'm sorry it only goes up to 1992. Perhaps I encountered this work because I started working in almost perfect ignorance. And, before Google, etc., one followed bibliographies carefully. Reply

Gwendolynn Hanisch North Fort Myers August 3, 2019

Hi, was wondering if only men are supposed to where the tekhelet on clothing, or women as well.
Also, are the tekhelet supposed to be on all garments? Reply

Jay Silverman Delray Beach August 4, 2019

in response to Gwendolynn Hanisch:

Shalom Gwendolyn,

Please see the link below for a good answer. The basic reason is because it is a time-related mitzvah that women do not have to do. If they want to it should be done modestly and not as some kind of way to attempt to prove that they are equal to men. The fact is that women are created closer to what HaShem considers to be His ideal of satisfaction. They are guardians of tradition, and the molders of character, children, and family. They did not worship the Golden Calf. (Artscroll Siddur Kol Yaakov).

Shalom,

Jay

Chabad.org/587787 Reply

Chaim Raphael Aberdeen, MD June 15, 2021

in response to Jay Silverman:

What were the Jewish women doing while the Jewish men were worshipping the golden calf? Serious question out of curiosity. Like were they making Shabbos dinner or weaving linen? Were they singing or discussing Torah, perhaps saying Manishnanah or The Song Of Moses? Also, did Jewish women disobey Hashem with manna on Shabbos by cooking? If not, what were they doing instead? Perhaps eating their Challah they made before Shabbos?

Shalom Rav. Reply

Rabbi Jay F Silverman Delray Beach June 15, 2021

in response to Chaim Raphael :

Shalom Chaim,

I will have to look into this and let you know. I do not believe that the women were cooking manna at all. It did not need to be cooked, and it would taste like whatever you wanted it to taste like. Likewise, I believe that the water from the well of Miriam would taste like whatever you wanted it to taste like.

Rabbi Jay Reply

Chaim Raphael Aberdeen, MD June 16, 2021

in response to Rabbi Jay F Silverman:

Shalom. If manna did not need to be cooked, why did Hashem declare for Israel to do all their cooking before Shabbos so they could receive a double portion of manna? Is it true that Israel was commanded by Hashem to cook before Shabbos their normal foods to receive the blessing of a double portion of manna? Is manna not significant on Shabbos when Israel was commanded as a positive Mitzvah to do all their cooking ahead of time? What is the significance then of manna on Shabbos for keeping Shabbos? What is the correlation of keeping Shabbos and manna? What is the Kabbalah of how manna can bless the lives of every Jew if we obey Hashem and His teachings? What is Hashem teaching Israel in Exodus about Teshuvah and obeying Him, and what is The Kabbalah of the kedusha of us being blessed by Hashem when we obey Him and love Him? What is The Kabbalah of The Shema, and how does loving God with all our heart relate to manna? How can we love our fellow Jew as ourself thinking manna from Heaven? Reply

Rabbi Jay F Silverman Delray Beach June 17, 2021

in response to Chaim Raphael :

Yes I made a mistake. Exodus chapter 16 relates that the Children of Israel did cook and bake the manna. They received a double portion on Fridays so that they did not have to gather it on the Sabbath. I will get back to you on the other questions. In the meantime I suggest that you read the commentary in the Artscroll Stone Edition Chumash. It is extremely informative. Toda Rabbah Reply

Jay Silverman Delray Beach June 7, 2018

Look up P'til Tekelet and you will see the real thing. It is made from the chilazon sea snail that looks like a small conch shell. I have been to the factory in Maale Adumim and I can attest that this is the real deal. It can be made with a light blue or it can be dipped twice for a dark blue. I have both colors on different tallit. Reply

Mark Chicago, IL September 29, 2020

in response to Jay Silverman:

I have only seen the P'til Tekhelet in one shade in all the online adds. I have not seen dipped and double dipped in any website that sells it. Didn't I read somewhere that double dipping is not allowed for Kosher Tekhelet? Reply

Rafi Hecht September 29, 2020

in response to Mark:

It’s certainly not preferable. I understand that Radzyn does double dip, but Ptil decided against it since a king isn’t served seconds, and we are here to serve the King. Reply

Levi Y Rapoport Brooklyn June 5, 2018

this is too sparse Reply

Anonymous June 1, 2016

blue tread We have modern technology, so why can't we just use a normal blue tread. Yes at that time there were no factories or places to just buy or make blue, but now we can so why not do it to keep the mitzvah Reply

Anonymous Colorado June 3, 2018

in response to Anonymous:

It was a specific blue not just any blue. There were plenty of these factories in Talmudic times. Romans called them pupulariums. The Carthaginians had Murex factories along the sea shores of what is now Tunisia.( Due mainly to the smell they were on the port itself) So, Its not just any blue , nor one we have available. From what i have learned you can get hues of purple from some of these blues. The color blue, is not the same as a hue of that blue color. Hope that helps. Reply

Mario March 31, 2019

in response to Anonymous:

Agree 100% Reply

Baruch New Zealand March 7, 2019

in response to Anonymous:

That is circular reasoning. The question was "why can't we just use a normal blue thread", to which the answer was given "it was a specific blue not just any blue". Well, the Torah does not mention a specific blue. The Talmud is a commentary on the Torah, and the things it says it said for that time. At that time, the only blue available was the ones provided by creatures. The Torah never says that a particular process can't be used to produce the blue. Back then, it was with mollusks. Now, we have other ways.

What is offered above is circular reasoning: "we do it this way because that is how we have always done it, and we have always done it this way because this is the way we do it."

It seems fundamentally wrong to fail in keeping a written Torah command on account that a Talmudic statement cannot be fulfilled. Truly, this is the tail wagging the dog. The Talmud is a commentary on the Torah, not vice versa. Reply

Anonymous March 31, 2019

in response to Baruch:

Right on it, Baruch Reply

Anonymous July 15, 2019

in response to Baruch:

There is no such thing as Torah without the Talmud all of the laws we have today are from the Talmud the Torah itself is usually very concise and not explanatory at all. The majority of mitsvot we have are not due to the word or two it says in Torah it's due to the 60 tractates of Talmud written by the leading rabbis of the Jews throughout thousands of years without whom the Torah would have guessed to exist millennia ago. The raid is not just a commentary. There were two parts to Torah given at Sinai the written Torah and the oral Torah both are equally important and holy as given by G-d. Reply

Roslyn F Madrid Kitwanga, BC July 17, 2019

in response to Baruch:

It is probable that an indigo or woad-based blue (i.e. vegetable-derived) blue dye was in use "at that time". Chemically, the blue of mullosk-based tekelet is the same as plant-derived indigo dye. the chemistry of 'Royal Purple', and the 'purpura' dye of the New World are the same as indigo, with an added bromine molecule. Reply

Anonymous Aurora August 3, 2019

in response to Baruch:

Torah without Talmud is impossible, what is Kosher slaughter ? An Etrog ? Melacha ? How much to remove at a bris !?! Nehemiah 9:13 "You came down on Mount Sinai and spoke with them from heaven and gave them right rules and true laws, good statutes and commandments,"
So what are the rules, laws and statues as Torah states Moshe brought them off the mountain with the commandments ? Because he was only carrying the tablets.
the rest had to of been given Orally. Oral traditions were later written down in the Talmud due to Roman persecution, and the incoming of xtrianity.
Rambam's Mishneh Torah intro/chapter 1, 2, 3 ? (available on this site) is all you need to read to find out the chain there from Moshe to the Sages. The Nevim?Prophets were all involved in this process as were the Men of the Great Assembly of whom disbanded before 30ce and moved to HaYavne Israel, via Gamliel HaYavne ( Rabbi Berel Wein/Jewish History) Moshe only brought the Tablets down with the 10 commandments on it, but the Torah says laws, statues and commandments There is also Numbers which tells us to follow the heads of the tribes Reply

Rafi Hecht Toronto May 19, 2020

in response to Baruch:

Joining a little late to the party :-) Actually the reasoning of using any source for blue (even plant-based) for Techeiles, as long as the finish is permanent, was suggested by the Tiferes Yisroel. He was the only one who stated this and wasn't supported by any of his peers on this Chiddush. Also, Techeiles was more than simply a color: it was a commodity consisting of a range of colors between sky blue to purple, each shade which objectively corresponds with a specific shade in the sky. So a "specific blue" is actually a misconception! Reply

Roz Madrid May 15, 2021

in response to Baruch:

Dyed fibre was not common. (Joseph's many colours ...) Blue fibre came from special processes. It was rare and precious. Wearing a blue thread, like wearing a beautiful diamond as a reminder to do G-d's ways. Reply

Judy Freed Beer Sheva, Israel November 15, 2021

in response to Baruch:

They did have plant based blue dyes also back then. The Talmud expressly states that the plant based blue dye cannot be used for the tzitzit, even if it appears to be the same color, because tchelet refers to a specific dye, not to the color. In modern Hebrew, tchelet refers to a pale blue like the sky. But all the pictures I've seen of tchelet dyed wool are fairly dark. The strength of the shade is determined by how long the fiber was in the dye bath and the concentration of the dye. No doubt there was a standard in ancient times for dying wool at the tchelet factories. Reply

Roslyn Madrid Kitwanga February 17, 2022

in response to Baruch:

I do not understand the basis for you saying ' At that time, the only blue available was the ones provided by creatures.' I do not have archaeological proof at hand, but it is a reasonable supposition that (chemically identical) plant-based indigo was used in the area at that time. Reply

Judy Beer Sheva, Israel June 8, 2023

in response to Baruch:

Tchelet was a specific blue that was very well known at the time. The Talmud warns against using plant based substitutes that looked like the real thing but cost less. I think the reason only a single thread is called for is that such a small amount was considered affordable, so that everyone could have it. Reply

Anonymous Co August 3, 2019

in response to Anonymous:

You cannot decipher Torah without Torah she-be-`al peh/Oral Torah. Impossible to do so 100% agree Torah without Talmud makes one an apikoros, one who negates the rabbinic tradition. The designation apikoros first occurs in rabbinic literature in the Mishnah (Sanh. 10:1), enumerated among those who forfeit their "share in the world to come." connected with the Aramaic word hefker ("abandoned"; see TJ, Sanh. 10:1, 28b; cf. also Maimonides' introduction to the above Mishnah, which explicitly states that it is an Aramaic word). They extended its meaning to refer generally to anyone who throws off the yoke of the commandments, or who derides the Torah and its representatives. Thus *Korah , who, according to the rabbis, held up the laws of the Torah to ridicule, is referred to as an apikoros (TJ, Sanh. 10:1, 27d). Maimonides gives a more precise theological definition of the word. Distinguishing the apikoros from the sectarian (min), the disbeliever, and the apostate, he defines him as one who either denies prophecy, and therefore the possibility of communion between G-d/Man Reply

Roz Madrid May 15, 2021

in response to Rafi Hecht:

Chemically, there is no difference between blue from snails, and blue from indigo plants. There has been simple experimentation (American University in Beirut, 196?) that, according to the processing method, one can get from snails a range from pale green to blue to purple. Incorporating a molecule of bromine makes the purple colour. In context, it really has little to do with the colour itself. Instead, it was a valuable mnemonic device. A valuable reminder to live according to the Law. Reply

Roslyn Madrid BC, Canada January 22, 2022

in response to Judy Freed:

Because the reaction with oxygen in the air is powered by exposure to light, it makes no difference how long the fibre sits in the dye bath. To make a more intense colour, repeated dipping is required. Historically, in southern Mexico and the Tuareg people of Morocco, fabric which has been dipped repeatedly until it is virtually black with a copper sheen, is considered very luxurious. In earlier posts, I discuss the chemistry of tekhelet and animal- and plant-derived indigo. Reply

Dovid aryeh Rapoport brooklyn June 11, 2015

The tekhelet (biblical blue dye) made from the murex trunculus snail has to be the real tekhelet because: it mentions in the talmud that there was only 2 ways to make blue dye, the first way was using the chilazon (animal which tekhelet is produced). And the second way was using the indigo flower (a much more affordable way). It says that tekhelet is only valid if produced with the chilazon, and if you use the indigo flower it is not fit for use, people wanted to use the indigo flower because it was much cheaper.

The Talmud states that argaman (an ancient purple color that the Romans liked to use (the Romans called it Tyrian purple) was also produced using the chilazon. and recently historians stated that the murex trunculus snail was used for dye in ancient times based on their findings: they found a pit in Tyre (southern Lebanon) which was filled with murex trunculus snail shells, and in old hebrew Tyre is referred to as tzor, and it mentions that the chilazon was caught in the area between tzor and haifa! and other historians found a fabric which was blue, and they tested this fabric and the tests showed that it was dyed using the murex trunculus snail! So this proves that the murex trunculus snail dye is the true tekhelet. Reply

Roslyn F Madrid Kitwanga, BC July 17, 2019

in response to Dovid aryeh Rapoport:

Thank you, Dovid, for your comprehensive response. Reply

Roslyn Madrid Kitwanga February 17, 2022

in response to Roslyn F Madrid:

Except for the 'pit' in Tyre. This may be splitting hairs, but I have read that 'middens' (mounds or hill)s found in that area are composed of Murex shells .... Reply

David Chester Petach Tikva, Israel December 29, 2014

Eithopians Too The Ethiopian Jews, who are now well established in Israel, also commonly have white clothes. Particularly amongst their women does one see the use of large enwrapping "shawls" having a thick blue stripe along two edges. This tradition may date from before the time when the Jews became Jews (and we were still regarded as Hebrews or Bnai-Yisrael), because the Ethiopians come from the first Assyrian dispersion, that is before the return from Babylon and the formalization of our present religion. Reply

Isaac HaLevi PA December 28, 2014

I think the symbolism of the blue thread is beautiful and poignant.

Simple question: does it render the tzizis un kosher by having a blue thread in it, regardless of the source of the dye? Reply

Kadosh March 31, 2019

in response to Isaac HaLevi:

Good question. Reply

Charlayne NC July 24, 2013

Kosher I read somewhere the process of getting the blue from the snail is done while it is alive, so this renders it kosher. I can't remember where I read it though. Reply

RF Madrid February 20, 2019

in response to Charlayne:

I wrote a thesis based on research on the use in Mexico of the 'Purpura' snail to make a 'royal purple' dye. Traditionally, the snails were 'milked' of the dye, returned unharmed to their habitat, and could be 'milked' again in a few days. Non-traditional resource extraction has put the species at serious risk. As I remember reading, the dye vats of Tyre contained critters that had been removed from their shells before fermentation. That may be why the Mediterranean species were nearly wiped out. Reply

Marty Denver February 20, 2013

To Gershon Hmmm. I think you have an interesting point regarding the donkey...don't think we chopped off his head though. As I understand it, the donkey is the only unkosher animal to have kedusha, holiness, and thus, the first born had to be redeemed. That means a lamb gets sacrificed. If the donkey is not redeemed, then someone breaks his neck. Ouch! God, do You really want us to do that? That aside...
The rumor is the donkey gets kedusha status for helping us get out of town, that is, Egypt. And then shlepping all our supplies for 40 years in the desert without complaint, unlike our ancestors that kvetched all the time.
As far as other dyes in the Temple coming from unkosher sources, well, it doesn't say so in the Torah as far as I know.
If that was passed down in the Oral Law, well, one of the hazards of playing telephone as kids, the message gets messed up. And that's how the poor unkosher snail got crushed in all this. Reply

Gershon KS February 20, 2013

To Marty I think that some of the other dyes used for the Temple were also made of unkosher sources. Think also of the firstborn donkey whose head was to be chopped off. Reply

Judy Freed Beer Sheva, Israel June 15, 2021

in response to Gershon:

The crimson dye, Shani, was made from insects. And the cloth part of the high priest's breastplate was shatnez. In Talmudic times, the rabbis dealt with the question of fake tchelet. (plant based blue dye) It was expressly stated that one should use authentic tchelet despite the expense rather than the cheaper plant based blue dye. Reply

Marty Denver February 19, 2013

sky blue works Are there any other times in the Tanach or the Talmud where we're required to use something from an unkosher animal? If not, then we've probably been wrong using snails all along.
I think God is scratching His head wondering why all the meshugas, "I just thought if you had a blue thread you'll remember the commandments comes from heaven, and that I am watching what you do."
So, Nu, any plant or artificial dye will do. Reply

RF Madrid February 20, 2019

in response to Marty:

That the point of the blue thread is that it is intended to work as a reminder of important thoughts. Tekhelet was rare and precious, an effective mnemonic device, just as a gold ring might be. I might suggest that a diamond instead of a blue thread might attract attention in a similar way. That does not mean that rhinestones or indigo are satisfactory substitutes - quite the contrary. Reply

Ed Friedman Silver Spring MD February 19, 2013

techelet: blue tests Rabbi Yisroel Lipschutz: tests in the Talmud for the blue dye? What are these tests and what is the source of the source in the Talmud? Reply

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