Talmud Study - Lesson 8

What if the owner does not wish to pay a concession he would otherwise be expected to pay
- will the Court then require him to do so? Reply

A woman borrows item then the husband pays back. My question is does the husband have to pay back or can he say my wife borrowed the item so it's not my problem.and my wife has to pay it back? Reply

Quote
"7. (If you assume that the guardian does not acquire half the penalty payments for repaying half the item…) Someone borrows two cows, they were both stolen, and he paid for only one of them? 8. (If you assume that the borrower does not acquire half the penalty payments for repaying only one animal [half the deposit]…) Someone borrowed a cow from two partners, it stolen, and he paid one of the partners his entire share? 9. (If you assume that the guardian does not acquire half the penalty payments because he has only paid one partner [half of what he entirely owes]…) "

I find the text confusing as it mentions borrowers not unpaid guardians. I thought that the borrower and unpaid guardian have completely different rights yet here they seem to be the same thing Reply

Blackboard Why don't you use a blackboard to show names and terms? Reply

Where is the Jerushalmi Where in the Jerushalmi Rambam makes reference? Reply

lesson #8 I truly enjoy your online class. You have made a complex subject, more easy to understand. You are an excellent teacher and speaker. I only wish I were able to attend your class personally. Thank you. Reply

Interesting Course I have found this course very interesting. I have learned a lot of things that I didn't realize I didn't think about about. before. Thank you for helping me to understand about these things. Reply

Difficult The teacher's voice is so clear that it is very easy to listen to. However, the logic of Talmud is difficult to follow. It might be because English is not my mother tongue. Reply

Lesson 8 You are an excellent teacher. Your diction is perfect, you are clear and precise and your expressions show you love what you're doing.
I've always wondered about Talmud if I could ever understand it. This is great.
Shalom, Reply

Very interesting I enyojed the class. I remembered the tale of King Solomon and the women arguing for the ownership of one baby: Rabbi keep going this way. These classes open my mind Reply

Talmud For Beginners Lesson 8 I enjoyed the lecture and am looking forward to Lesson 9. Reply

Response to rabbi Wolf to question Thank you very much for your answer. I still am concerned that in the case of the stolen cow, where the penalty is 5 cows, that guardian would stand to make a profit of 4 cows and would likely pay the owner for one cow only. This fact to me could encourage dishonest guardians to arrange for the theft of the cow in order to reap a handsome profit. Reply

Talmud for beginners lesson 8 At the very least we know what the meaning of greed is right. i enjoyed this comment about the word greed by Rabbi Wolf. You would have made the Rebbe very proud with your knowledge of the Talmud Law. What I got from that comment was there is variables that need to be identified. We must know the rules before we write the answers to them. Very good job Rabbi Wolf, indeed studying more can help all of us. Reply

Question for Rabbi Wolf Can the owner accept payment from a guardian and still refuse to give him ownership rights and the ability to profit from the theft? Or does the guardian in effect take over complete possession at his discretion if he repays the owner for the loss? Reply

Grape colored glasses If you can not take care of a watch, what make you think you could guard someone else business? Damages can be compared to a car accident. Who get's the ticket at the end of the day is what we don't care about, right? Who has to pay for the accident is what people run for the most, not correct? We must remember what we did to get into the accident in the first place. So lessons 1-8 are totally relevant in order to get that total recall or maybe as the old saying goes "STOP, rewind that tape" to apply the law too. So keep going Rabbi Wolf! Move on, to just keep on, with less-on. Reply

response to doctor's wife Punitive damages in the medical field are entirely different in nature to stealing something by a thief, but are worthy of serious discussions. But here again, the issue of money permeates the entire issue and lawyers suing for huge punitive damages is the major cause for the high insurance premiums. Again, however, I was disappointed that so far 8 lectures were devoted to the guardian question when other more relevant topics could be reviewed. as well. Reply

maybe maybe can we have the class more often than once a week? Reply

response to anonymous As a doctor's wife, I think the discussion is incrediably timely. Missing from the Obama healthcare bill is tort reform, thus punitive damages which is what the 2,4,&5 fold penalty essentially are, is quite valuable food for thought and punitive damages in and of themselves are a topic on today's legal system, don't you think? Reply

Lesson#8 another minority opinion While I found the lecture very interesting as usual, especially the husband/wife portion, I still find the the entire topic is only slightly relevant in 2010. The whole discussions revolve around a thief's penalty payments. If the thief only had to pay back the original value plus some expenses incurred by the owner, the entire topic would not be any issue at all. The obsession with making a profit would disappear and guardians/borrowers would pay back the owners in full. For good or bad, the world has changed in regard to the punishment for thievery. What is the ruling in Israel today? While the questions studied in the Talmud show a great depth of understanding and analysis and present the deep thinking of the talmudists, this topic in my opinion does not have to reviewed in such detail. A thorough summary would have been enough. Reply