Talmud Study - Lesson 7

I remember when I was a very young adult, I was staying with a friend. While she and her husband were out, I decided to use their hot air popper to make popcorn (I had never used one before). I put oil in the bottom with the popcorn, with the predictable result that I burned up the appliance. I was horrified, so I walked to the nearest store (one mile away) and bought another one. When she came back, she was almost in tears when I explained what happened and what I had done to repair the damage. She could not believe I went to that much trouble as well as spending money she knew I could not afford. It never hurts to do the right thing whether it is an accident or not. Reply

Why not say so? / Lesson 7 If one is obliged to pay but refuses because at the moment he can't afford to, why does the mishna think he is going to say: I won't pay??? Any man would instead say that at the moment he is not able to.
By the way it is quite amusing how you intertwain the reality of the times in whichthe mishna was thought out and later written (with oxens plouhging field) with our times with watches bought for $200 and banks! Reply

Thank you Thank you for this lesson. It was so interesting as was the story you told us at the end. So much to think about. I really appreciate these lessons. Reply

Excellent Great lesson Reply

lesson 7A Brilliant analysis as usual. Question then is if the talmud leaves these questions unresolved. How do we or the rabbis arrive at answers in real life that mimic the same circumstances in these cases? I would think that all the answers if not overtly described are at least hidden somewhere in the talmud. Reply

On this lesso I have no questions, but I have enjoyed the class very much. I benefit a lot when I pause so as to let a new idea to sink in Reply

It is very pleasurable to learn Talmud It is difficult sometime to follow the meticulous setting of Halachah. But it is such a pleasure to learn Talmud. The story you shared us at the end of the lesson was so beautiful, thank you for making Talmud accessible to all. Reply

Talmud For Beginners Lesson 7 Part 1 I enjoyed the lesson very much. It answered some of the questions I had. Looking forward to Lesson 7 Part 2. Have a blessed Shabbat. Reply

2nd generation decisions Despite all the details, I find it interesting that much of the discussion revolves around relationships between people and the depth of those relationships. Reply

RE: lesson #7 extreme minority opinion In reply to Anonymous:

This isn't about making money over an unfortunate occurrence but about ensuring that people are treated fairly. This isn't about our faith; it's about our law. In fact, many of the questions posed actually rely on the good intentions of people (such as reneging on promising to pay meaning that the unpaid guardian wants to pay but is unable to currently).

People have such negative stereotypes because they don't understand the core essence of what the Talmud is: a legal document expressing what Micah taught: 'To do justice and to love goodness and to walk modestly with your G-d.' If this came naturally to us, we wouldn't have need of the Talmud (or Torah!). However, people aren't always good-intentioned but those who are have a right to seek protection from those who aren't and here the Rabbis struggle to determine how to protect while being fair to both parties so that not even by accident is someone mistreated.

Or at least that's my take on it! Reply

Re: "lesson #7 extreme minority opinion" Do you mean that these laws display a particular and systemic interest in exploitation? It definitely doesn't seem that way to me. When something bad happens, of course nobody should look to exploit the victim. Still, allowing needless loss of resources doesn't help anyone. This might sound shallow and crass, but this is also an idea that every legal system reflects. It's not unique to Judaism.

If I understand correctly, you make two points, essentially. First, these types of laws feed negative stereotypes. Second, the level of detail here does not "enhance the basic principles of our Jewish faith".

In response to the first: if these types of laws are common to all legal systems, the fact that they feed negative stereotypes about Jews reflects the discrimination of bigots, not something about the legal system itself.
In response to the second: though it's hard to see it in the details sometimes, a complete Halakhic system is a powerful thing-Jewish law applies to all parts of life. Reply

lesson #7 extreme minority opinion Once again a superb lecture by Rabbi wolf. My gut feel, however, is that this whole discussion feeds the classic stereotype of Jews; that they are money grubbers etc. Everything here discusses how to make money over an unfortunate occurrence, namely a theft. The detail presented here in my opinion does not enhance the basic principles of our jewish faith but dwells on on serious character defects inherent in all of us . Reply

Traditional First Talmud Teaching I apologize if this has been asked in a previous class but I know that Bava Metzia is often where new Talmud students are instructed to begin but is it common to begin where Rabbi Wolf has has chosen to begin; do they begin at the beginning, with two people contesting over a found item; or is there another part of Bava Metzia (or another tractate) where new students usually begin? Reply