The Torah View on Vegetarianism

I was raised a vegetarian and I have had blood work done through out the last 40 years of my life and never once has a doctor told me that I was deficient in a vitamin or mineral. And yes I was specifically being tested to find out if my vegan/vegetarian diet was leaving me deficient in any area. Reply

Re: Vegetarianism Appreciate the clarity of David Avram's heuristic. I am a vegetarian and he has expressed my viewpoint exactly. That is the thrust of my comments of April 26 2010 (signed anonymous) and October 25 2010 under my own name and August 3 2012. Reply

Vegetarianism A heuristic I try to live by is simple in its formulation, but can be incredibly difficult in practice: 'acts of human violence against any living creatures need to be properly justified'.

If we are faced with a stark matter of eating for survival (as unfortunately many people in the world still are), let's consider eating meat a kind self-defense, i.e. essential for our basic well-being. There, surely meat eating (which is naturally an act of violence against animals) should be much less of an ethical imperative.

In the developed rich nations, we can get informed about nutrition, eat well and easily reduce our violence towards animals. There is plenty of nutritional advice around that will help people understand the health factors concerning a vegetarian diet. Careful planning of a diet is essential with ANY kind of food if one wants to be healthy.

The destruction of our environment is a major concern with the Co2 emissions from factory farming, which is why I am a Jewish Vegan. Reply

Jewish Views on Animals JEWISH TEACHINGS ON ANIMALS "G-d's tender mercies are over all His creatures." (Psalms 145:9). "The righteous person regards the life of their animal." (Proverbs 12:10) "It is prohibited to kill an animal with its young on the same day, in order that people should be restrained and prevented from killing the two together in such a manner that the young is slain in the sight of the mother; for the pain of animals under such circumstances is very great. There is no difference in this case between the pain of people and the pain of other living beings, since the love and the tenderness of the mother for her young ones is not produced by reasoning but by feeling, and this faculty exists not only in people but in most living creatures." (Maimonides, Guide for the Perplexed, 3:48) "Here you are faced with G-d's teaching, which obliges you not only to refrain from inflicting unnecessary pain on any animal, but to help and, when you can, to lessen the pain whenever you see an animal sufferRav Kook saw people's craving for meat as a manifestation of negative passions rather than an inherent need. He and Joseph Albo [a Jewish philosopher in Spain, c.1380-1444] believed that in the days of the Messiah people will again be vegetarians. Rav Kook stated that in the Messianic Epoch, "the effect of knowledge will spread even to animals...and sacrifices in the Temple will consist of vegetation, and it will be pleasing to God as in days of old..." (from Rav Kook's prayerbook commentary, Olat Hara'yah). They based this on the prophecy of Isaiah: "And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb. and the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together. And the lion shall eat straw like the ox…. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain." (Isaiah 11:6-9) Rabbi Kook believed that the high moral level involved in the vegetarianism of the generations before Noah is a virtue of such great value that it cannot be lost forever. In the future ideal state, just as at the initial period, people and animals will not eat flesh. No one shall hurt or destroy another living creature. People's lives will no longer be supported at the expense of the lives of animals. In his booklet "Chalutzim of the Messiah--The Religious Vegetarian Concept as Expounded by Rabbi Kook," Joe Green, a recent Jewish vegetarian writer, concluded that, in adopting the diet that will be used during the time of the Messiah, Jewish religious ethical vegetarians are pioneers of the Messianic era; they are leading lives that make the coming of the Messiah more likely. Today most Jews eat meat, but the high ideal of God, the initial vegetarian dietary law, still stands supreme in the Bible for Jews and the whole world to see, an ultimate goal toward which all people should strive. Reply

Quality of life and a better death The comment posted by "Montreal" on Aug 12, 2012 raises the point of extenuating circumstances. The kosher slaughter has been argued to be kinder and certainly, because of the personal spiritual investment in the act, is not taken lightly.

The injunction to treat animals well may imply by extension that no Jew can in good conscience subscribe to the factory farming and slaughter described in the classic book, "Dominion", by Mathew Scully, or the more recent defence of the family farm, "Animal, Vegitable, Miracle" by Barbara Kingsolver.

She points put that while she is a meat eater, she practiced vegetarianism for several years, rather than support industral scale abuse and torture of animals. She now eats the meat of ethically raised, fattened and slaughted animals from small farms.

During travel, or times of emergency we are given dispensation from normal dietary laws. And such extentuating circumstances led Kingsolver, a meat eater, to refrain pending a better source. Reply

vegetarian I think people need to be aware that 99% of the meat being produced these days is from "factory farmed" animals. This process of imprisoning animals and allowing them very little room to move cannot be justified from an ethical standpoint. I'm not sure if this is also the process of raising kosher meat or if the animals are given a higher quality of life. Reply

Correction & Appreciation I enjoyed Joshua's Oct 26, 2010 post that addresses a spiritual and practical aspect of vegetarianism that is adds to our discussion. Reply

Vegitarianism The Alter Rebbe writes in his Shulchan Aruch that there is no obligation to eat meat on Shabbath, but that this has become the custom because most people enjoy eating meat, it is for them an Oneg for the sake of Shabbath. But the Rebbe's word imply that one should eat on Shabbath food that he enjoys, and if he does not enjoy meat should refrain from eating it on Shabbath and eat other food that he enjoys. So even though there's a matter of eating meat to elevate to it's next level, as you taught, if it's not a pleasure for the particular individual perhaps he should refrain, this is question number one.
Question number two: We know that Adam, the first man, was not allowed meat and that G-d permitted meat to the Children of Noah because he felt that to forbid meat was a decree that the community would not be able to withstand. If however a particular person feels it is better to be a vegetarian because this was G-d's original intention and he would like to take this upon himself, would he be permitted to do so?
Thank You Reply

Response to last comment Thanks for commenting on my Apr 26, 2010 post. Your point is well taken that meat is a more compact and complete food. Replacing this rich nutrient source requires great care in nutriution and meal planning. All said, though, so does aherence to Jewish dietary law and practices. The real question, is whether such effort is advocated by the Torah.

After the flood, when Noah makes a burned offering In Genesis 8.20, G-d makes a promise never to doom the earth because of man whose considered actions are "evil from his youth". This can mean "since" man's creation or "as a result" of his primativeness -- a temporary state while man develops. My feeling is that Rambam, in his commentary allows for the second explanation and that this passage is the bridge connecting the period of nuts and seeds in the garden to a post-flood era ending the late 20th century.

It is less a question of what is easier but rather that, since man now has alternatives, is meat eating no longer tolerable? Reply

Response to last comment. I am no scholar on the religious matter, though I am a jew. However, regarding your discussion of health; it is not as simple as B12. There are literally hundreds of different vitamins, minerals, and nutrients that are very difficult to get if you are vegetarian, and almost impossible if you are vegan. These include, but are not limited to: Essential Fatty Acids (the only non meat/non fish source of this os Algae and you would have to eat huge amounts - EPA, DHA, CLA, Arachadonic Acid, all the B vitamins, Iron, All twenty Amino acids (which are found in no fruits or veggies), proteins (unless you eat alot of legumes and beans it's impossible to get without meat, eggs, milk, fish..) There's alot more than I have room for here, of things that the bodies of most vegetarians and all vegans will be starving for (unless they are taking a hundred different vitamins and supplements as well as eating a huge load and wide variety of plants, not just soy items). Reply

Rabbi Leib Schapiro: Torah View on Vegetarianism Is meat truly elevated when it need not be eaten. Until modern times, B12 could only be obtained from animal products, and, with man's limited knowledge of nutrition, it was indeed a necessity, the lack of which lead to dementia, neurological disorders, and heart problems . It is not implausible to contemplate that, without B12 supplied by meat, man would be a lower, perhaps non-sentient form and could not contemplate G-d. However in modern times we have the knowledge to obtain B12 from other sources (including eggs and dairy) rendering meat a matter of choice. At that point, man is no longer granted toleration for his primitive needs of survival, but must consider the animal's well being more closely. Reply

Sound Quality The quality of sound needs to be improved. Reply