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Why Couldn't the Jews and Greeks Just Get Along?


Question:

It's hard for me to get into Chanukah. As far as I can see, the whole thing was a major disaster. Here we have a meeting of two rich cultures, with so much to share, so much to contribute to the world together, so much synergy that could happen, and instead, BOOM! -- the extremists of both sides hit the battlefield.

I don't get it. The Greeks were universalists. They were open to new ideas from wherever they came. They spread knowledge and understanding throughout the Mediterranean. Here was an opportunity to take Jewish values to the world, to go public. Why couldn't those Maccabee hotheads work out some sort of compromise?

The Short Answer:

Actually, this was the greatest thing that could have happened to the Greek mind: To discover that one thing it could not tolerate -- something like the massage therapist who helps you to find that one trigger point where you can't be touched.

For the Jew, as well, this was a defining experience. The red lines became clear, and with those guidelines, the essential Torah was made able to survive to this day.

The Long Answer:

You're right about one thing: The whole Chanukah story was completely out of character for Ancient Greece. I don't believe there was any other culture they ever oppressed or forbade. Every new culture had its set of gods and rituals, and that was just great. "Hey, you got gods? We got gods, too! Here, let's trade god cards! How 'bout mix and match? You got rituals? You got belief-systems? We're into all that stuff! We'll even help you make big, pretty statues!" Greeks were great syncretists -- meaning, they could jerry together every culture of the known world and make one big tzimmes out of all of it.

So what on earth did they have against the Jews?

Sure, there were political power-plays going on that were the ostensible reasons for the conflict. But it's obvious there was something deeper at play. Some subliminal annoyance that brought out the worst in the Greek and pushed the Maccabees to revolt. Apparently, there was something about the Jewish mind that didn't mix and match.

Now look at it from the Jewish side: Jews have also borrowed from every culture they've come in contact with. Whatever your grandmother tells you, Abraham did not smear his gefilte fish with chrane. One culture we borrowed more from than perhaps any other was that of Ancient Greece. The Talmud tells us that the only language the Torah could be translated into elegantly is Greek. They said it was a beautiful language. They say that of all peoples, the Greeks had ideas closest to ours. They praised many of the Greek philosophers. Maimonides wrote that Aristotle was half a prophet. The Seder Hadorot, a kind of classic Jewish history book, claims that Aristotle was really Jewish!

So what is going on here? Why such a violent clash? Why were the Jews unable to work out some sort of compromise with a Hellenist ruler?

We need to know because in a very real way, Chanukah lives on. Our society today is a bizarre grafting of these two cultures, the Hellenist and the Jewish. If this conflict existed back then, the question is, has there been some resolution over time? Or are we still fighting Greek elephants? Simply put: Is our society schizoid?

Head-To-Head -- and Beyond

So here's how the conversation goes. Which conversation? The conversation that's been going on ever since the Greek mind and the Jewish mind met one another, almost two and a half millennia ago. Where does it happen? Mostly, somewhere deep inside Jewish minds:

Greek: So tell us about your gods, Mr. Maccabee.

Jew: Um, that's singular.

Greek: Okay, tell me about your gods.

Jew: No, not you. G-d. G-d is singular. Only one god.

Greek: Don't worry, we've got so many I'm sure we can spare a few.

Jew: That's okay, one is enough.

Greek: So, this one G-d, what does He look like? We'd love to make some nice statues for you. You poor, uncultured people, you have no statues!

Jew: That's because He doesn't have looks.

Greek: No looks? Ugly? That's cool! A god of ugliness! Don't worry, we can make ugly statues, too.

Jew: No, no. He has no looks at all. You can't see Him.

Greek: An invisible G-d? Well, maybe we can do that in glass. But you have to give us some description.

Jew: Nope. Sorry. No description.

Greek: You mean nobody ever saw Him? How can you worship something if you don't know what it looks like? I mean, how do you know He exists in the first place?

Jew: It's not that we don't know what He looks like. He doesn't have any looks. He has no image.

Greek: Well, I'm sorry then. If He has no image, we can't make a statue.

Jew: That's fine with us.

Greek: But we'd like to write books about Him. So just give us some definition and we'll work around it.

Jew: Oh, our G-d can't be defined.

Greek: Come, now. Everything has to have a definition. Or else it's not a thing.

J: But G-d is not a thing. He creates things. But He isn't a thing.

G: Oh! So He is the Cosmic Mind Who conceives and shapes all forms from the primal essence-matter.

J: No, He doesn't just form them, He creates them. Out of nothing.

G: Now you're getting silly. You can't make something out of nothing. You need stuff to make it out of.

J: But there wasn't any stuff when things began.

G: There was always stuff. How else could the Cosmic Mind make anything?

J: Out of nothing!

G: Look, you Jews don't really think straight. But that's okay. We've conquered all sorts of primitive cultures. You'll learn, too. So, you worship the Cosmic Mind -- you'll get along just great with Aristotle and…

J: No, He's not just the Cosmic Mind.

G: Well, nothing's higher than the Cosmic Mind.

J: Because that's not who He is. I mean, even if He didn't make a world, He would still be G-d. So you can't say, "that's who He is -- the One that makes a world." There doesn't have to be a world for Him to exist.

G: Of course there has to be a world. Otherwise, why is there a world if there doesn't have to be one? The world makes sense. The Cosmic Mind makes sense. That's what it's all about. Reason. The highest and most perfect of all things. We Greeks will teach you all about that. So, now tell me about your rituals. We Greeks really dig rituals. Any that have to do with wine? Parties?

J: Sure, we make kiddush on Friday night to commemorate the Creation of the world from nothing.

G: Well, you can give up that one now, since I've just shown you that creation of the world from nothing makes no sense whatsoever.

J: We don't eat milk with meat.

G: Why not?

J: G-d says so.

G: For what reason?

J: Reason? He needs a reason? For the same reason He created heaven and earth!

G: Which is?

J: He just wanted to.

G: That's not a reason!

J: Sure it is. He decided He would like a world where there would be milk and meat and He would tell people, "Don't eat that milk and meat together!" and they would listen.

G: That makes no sense. That's not a reason!

J: Reason is just another of His creations.

G: Reason is the ultimate! There is nothing higher than Reason!

J: Okay then, explain to me why the world is the way it is. Why does one plus one equal two? Why does the square of the length of the hypotenuse equal the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides? Why do parallel lines never meet?

G: Because those are the rules of geometry!

J: So why does the Cosmic Mind, as you call Him, have to follow your rules of geometry?

G: They're not our rules! They are the self-evident truths of nature!

J: Why are these the truths and not something else?

G: You stubborn Jew! Don't you see that this is the most elegant, rational way things could be?

J: I'll bet you He could break them. I'll bet our G-d could make a world where parallel lines meet. He could break any of the laws of nature.

G: You can't break laws of nature! They're not like laws of the state or like your silly laws about cheeseburgers. They are truths. They are perfect. They are the ground of reality. They are because they have to be.

J: Nothing has to be. Nothing but the Source of Being. But He could be any way He wants.

G: Geometry has to be. Cause and effect has to be. Logic has to be. If A = B then B = A. That is an absolute Truth. It must be.

J: Why?

G: Why?! Because if they don't have to be, then I and you and this whole world have no real substance! And that cannot be!

J: That's just what I was trying to tell you. This world has no real substance. They only truth is…

G: Don't say it, Mr. Maccabee! You people are downright dangerous.

And that is why the Greeks did not forbid Jewish practice altogether. What they (initially) forbade were those practices that they saw as irrational. Those practices that Jews do simply because they believe they have a relationship with a Being who is higher than reason. That, they could not tolerate.

Of course, as you know, eventually some bright boys came up with geometries where parallel lines meet; cause and effect got bumped out of quantum physics; the world was discovered to have had a beginning; and even now it still is really nothing because the sum of all radiant energy minus all of the universe's mass equals zero. Most of us today have accepted that there are things that are the way they are not for any reason, but just because that's the way they are. Nothing has to be the way it is. Why do masses attract? Why is the grass green? Why is there anything at all? There doesn't have to be a reason for everything, because reason is not the foundation of reality. So what's so absurd about connecting to the Foundation of Reality through mitzvot that are beyond reason?

Mind Under Matter

Nevertheless, the battle continues. You see, as mentioned above, the Greek mind, aside from worshipping human intellect, is also a great syncretist. That means it can hammer together the most incongruous ideologies without blinking an eyelid. You've heard of Rice-Christians? Peyote-Catholics? The Greek mind could do any of that, and more.

The two characteristics go hand in hand: When there's nothing higher than intellect, intellect has no guiding light. Everything, even the stupidest thing -- as long as it doesn't deny intellect -- can be tolerated. Aristotle knew that the pantheon of Athenian gods was nonsense. But what's wrong with the common people, who cannot understand any better, having their way?

You can easily see that a knowledge of an absolute Divine Will beyond reason has become a necessity for human survival. Without the supposition of a Divine Will, whatever you wish to make sense can make sense. If your system of logic cannot support an idea, just change the postulates and rethink the data. Anything can be made to make sense when you determine the assumptions. Every society has had its philosophers and philosophers have justified everything imaginable -- from coliseum killing games to gas chambers.

Strangely, this may have worked to humanity's advantage in one regard: The Greek mind applied itself to figuring out the material world. When your belief system begins with Divine revelation you don't necessarily apply yourself to mundane matters of how things work. So technological progress became chiefly the domain of the Greek mind throughout history.

But it also has some nefarious consequences. Because when you marry intellect and materialism (a good description of Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany), you've entered a bottomless pit of quicksand.

Which brings us to a fascinating point. The Lubavitcher Rebbe points out that in Hebrew, the name for ancient Greece, Yavan, has another meaning: quicksand (as in Psalms 40:3 and Talmud, Eruvin 19a). Water mixes with sand, dirt and clay. You step in it and you can't get out. The more you try to climb up, the further down you go.

Take a look at the letters that spell Yavan in Hebrew: יון . It starts with a small point of a yud -- representing wisdom. That stretches down to become a vav. And the vav stretches even further down, below the line, to become a long nun. It's all a description of the process of intellect sinking into the material world and, with nothing to hold it in place, sinking further and further.

A Donkey and an Ox

Today, we have those syncretists who wish to marry materialism with Torah. And nothing is less congruous than that.

Materialism is the ultimate of Greece stuck in the mud. It is the idea that all that exists is that which can be observed, described and explained. Evolutionism, for example, is a materialistic explanation of existence. When people became disillusioned with the church and with faith, they needed an explanation of existence that relied on Chance and Necessity alone, without recourse to G-d. Darwinism and current cosmologies provide just that. So do the standard interpretations of history we are taught today.

Torah is an understanding that behind the world lies a Divine Will, unhampered by the limitations of nature or human logic -- because it is the source of all this. Why are there laws of nature? Because G-d generally chooses to work in consistent ways. Why did history unfold the way it did? Because that is all in G-d's plan.

When someone tries to provide a materialistic explanation for Torah and mitzvot, they are creating a Promethean bed, killing all sense of Torah in the process. So too, attempting to resolve conflicts between evolutionary doctrines and Torah makes less sense than marrying a donkey to an ox.

Yes, we try to understand as much as we can. The Torah commands us to think deeply, to immerse our intellects in study and comprehension. Whatever we can fit into intellect, we must strive to do so. Whatever explanation we can give, we must give it. But always with the sense that with every new grain of understanding, we have expanded the seashore of the Infinite Unknowable.

We can have a thousand reasons for not mixing meat and milk, but when it comes down to it, we do it because that is our personal connection with the Divine Will, the Life of All Things. And that is the victory of Chanukah.


For a different perspective on the same topic, please read Were the Maccabees Barbarians?

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By Tzvi Freeman   More articles...  |   RSS Listing of Newest Articles by this Author
Rabbi Tzvi Freeman, a senior editor at Chabad.org, also heads our Ask The Rabbi team. He is the author of Bringing Heaven Down to Earth. To subscribe to regular updates of Rabbi Freeman's writing, visit Freeman Files subscription.

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129 Comments Posted  |  Post A Comment
Reader Comments
Latest Comments:
Posted: Jan 26, 2012
Anon. now nice of you to post here.
Thank you and G-d bless you for your kindness.
Posted By Karen Joyce Chaya Fradle Kleinman Bell, Riverside, CA, USA

Posted: Jan 25, 2012
Thank you
I am of Greek parents raised in the USA. I think this is a great discussion, and even learned some things about my ancestral heritage that I had not heard before.

If I may add, that Judaism has influenced people today, just as much as Hellenistic thought has. We can get along, and should try more, being that we are neighbors for such a long time. I think the Jewish people of the community in Greece would be an excellent source of insight into the co existence of these very different religions. why ? Well, even today we say we are Christians, but the past philosophies and customs of ancient Greece still are evident in the culture today. Excellent topic . Thanks again :)
Posted By Anonymous, Ann Arbor, MI

Posted: Dec 27, 2011
David of Baltimore Makes a Point.
I don’t like that this commentary has permitted the portrayal of Greeks as a culture made up of people whom are all alike. Ex. “The Greeks were polytheists.” – Beverly Kurtin If one has seen one Greek, one has not seen them all. Ex. Aristotle. Generalization of nations as people that are all one way or another fuels the fires of hatred. That is not to say that there are not Greeks or that there are not Jews. It is that not that all Greeks are the nation Javan (though many were). Thus, not all Greeks have characteristics associable with the word Javan. As I have pointed out, some Greeks, specifically the rulers, were in fact Semites that descended from Edom, and that is the most likely source of polytheistic tendencies. Just like the Jews, Greeks are living, breathing people, many of whom evolve to have an identity of their own (not an identity reducible to nationalistic groupings aside from those in Torah).
Posted By Craig Hamilton, Sandwich, MA

Posted: Dec 26, 2011
RE:David, Baltimore, MD
Judaism today is NOT something quite Greek,because if it would,it would not be Judaism.

It is more accurate to say that many Jews have adopted a culture that is no theirs and have let Judaism aside.

Today´s general culture *is*a Greek culture in the sense that todays culture is Hedonistic,what means that today people take more care of their physical aspects than their spiritual aspects.

Today a big TV;a marketed "culture"sold by media;a juicy beef in a fashioned restaurant;a travel to Paris and so on are more important than the culture of the soul, that is virtually inexistent nowadays,
wouldn´t it be for Chabad org and other smaller movements,who eventually profit the "physical" language of the current " Greek" culture but keep the roots of the Judaism inside that form.

It can be a "Greek form" but it is Judaism inside and not the opposite.
Posted By Carmen

Posted: Dec 26, 2011
The Greeks prohibited the observance of Shabbat, Brit Mila (circumcision), and Kiddush Hachodesh court approved moon calendar.

They also prohibited the study and dissemination of Torah Sheba'al Peh (Oral Torah) while elevating the Torah Shebichtav (Written Torah) by translating it into Greek.

So, Orthodox Jews had a problem. Many of the Jewish people then were leaving Orthodoxy to join Greek thought patterns. Some of the oral laws made by the Rebbes were not being followed.

It was not ALL Jews who couldn't get along with the Greeks. It was the ones who believed in the extended Torah. The disputes became bitter.
Posted By Karen Joyce Chaya Fradle Kleinman Bell, Riverside, CA, USA

Posted: Dec 25, 2011
David in MD, I'd love to hear more of
Specifics in how we adopted Greek views. Sounds interesting.
Posted By Karen Joyce Chaya Fradle Kleinman Bell, Riverside, CA, USA

Posted: Dec 25, 2011
@David, above. Really you are simplifying, reducing, and even denying the most profound syncretic and cultural transfers we Jews ever experienced. You also wrong on the basic facts.
With all respect to the Rabbi, and to you, what is portrayed here as the Greek worldview says nothing about the ancient Greeks, because it is wholly inaccurate. But it does speak to prejudices some of us have about them and other cultures. The Rabbi woudl fail a classics 101 course.

The fact is Judaism today is something quite Greek. It was permanantly changed by contact with the Greeks and by our adoption of myriad small and large Greek views.
Posted By David, Baltimore, MD

Posted: Dec 20, 2011
Political Differences
Although Hanucha places the Jews and Greeks in opposite sides, history suggests it was a little bit different. Greek was the spoken language, not Hebrew nor Aramiac and the culture pattern of more than half of the Jews was Greek. So the battle was not only against certain Greek armies but it was also carried out by force within the ranks of the Jewish population. Much of their political views were in support the Greeks and their ways and to give up on the Jewish ones which they thought to be old fashioned and inferior. The Macabees had not only to defeat the Greek armies but to reconvert the Jews and rededicate the temple!

The reconversion part is still a problem even today!
Posted By David Chester, petach Tikva, Israel

Posted: Dec 19, 2011
Why Couldn't the Jews and Greks Get Along
Rabbi Freeman, you did it again. This is such a magnificent explanation of our Creator. And for the difference between Idolatry and the Monoteistic belief, it is amazing the way you answered such a question. You definitely have a special gift from the Giver of Everything this world contains. Thank you so much for your teachings. I never could have been able to explain to anyone such truth of our faith.
May Hashem, Blessed be He, keep on blessing you with wisdom.
Posted By Anonymous, Mesa, Arizona, USA

Posted: Dec 19, 2011
Promethean bed
Hi,

Thank you - I enjoyed this.

Where "Promethean bed" is cited, I believe "Procrustean bed" would have fit better (no pun intended), given the context.

Besides, the fable of Prometheus did not have a bed in it, and the fable of Procrustes did. Look it up, it's the original 'one size fits all' story.

Just a thought.

Thanks again.
Posted By Ira Barnett, Yorba Linda, CA



 


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