Proof of G-d's Existence - Learning & Values

Question:

I feel that I cannot observe a religion if I am not certain that it is true. Is there a proof that could give me a 100% certainty that G-d exists and gave the Torah to the Jewish people?

Answer:

Imagine you could do a blood test to determine who your soulmate is. You would go to a laboratory with a prospective partner and give blood samples, and half an hour later they would tell you yes or no. Sounds amazing? But think about it: Is that an ideal way to start a relationship? How romantic would it be to say, "Listen, the blood test came out positive, so we may as well get engaged"?

The truth is we wouldn't appreciate a laboratory-tested soulmate. What makes a relationship meaningful is that it is a choice coming from within. If we based a commitment on external evidence such as a blood test, we would indeed have certainty, but the sense of freedom would be lost. Freedom is an essential ingredient of true love--certainty is not.

That's why proving G-d is not helpful. G-d wants us to enter into a relationship with Him by choice, not by force. He created us as free beings who can deny Him if we want. There is no outside force or argument or proof that compels us to serve G-d. For that reason, when we do serve Him, it is by choice, it is coming from us, and that is the basis for a real relationship.

There are many logical proofs of G-d's existence and the truth of Torah. But most people are only ready to appreciate these proofs after they have already established a relationship with G-d, just as most people only recognize their soulmate as such after they have already committed to the relationship.

If you wait to know for sure that you have found your soulmate you may forever remain single. And if you wait for proof of G-d's truth you may forever live in a lonely universe. Embrace uncertainty and open yourself up to a real relationship. When you make that choice, you will find proof of G-d within your own soul.

By Aron Moss

Rabbi Aron Moss teaches Kabbalah, Talmud and practical Judaism in Sydney, Australia, and is a frequent contributor to Chabad.org.

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March 29, 2010

Ron and Murray

Ron, Makes sense to me. I suppose you could say simply that theological God and the story of creation strikes me as "a much greater leap of faith". I feel very much like you but toward the opposite end. The empirical evidence of science is what overwhelms me. It always interests me that the theologian will point out the uncertainty of science. But - Uncertainty IS science. Comparing it to religion is apples to oranges. It is a self correcting system of proof and dis-proof, with no certainty and nothing safe from scrutiny, always striving towards truth (if there be one), but striving nonetheless. For Mr. Russell, I'd say I completely understand his plea. I find it nearly impossible not to crave evidence.

Mr. Feller I have to say I really do like your God. I just wish more people envisioned him the way you do. Yours seems loving and open, not vengeful. "Thrilled at the discussion of his existence" rather than smiteful. I find that very refreshing.

Mark
USA/TX
chabadhouston.org

March 28, 2010

Proof of God's existance

Think of God, thrilled at the discussion of his existence, offering the following advice: Do not have faith and do not deny! Explore, understand, grow and do good works to the maximum of your ability.

Murray F. Feller
Micanopy, Florida

March 28, 2010

Mark

Your credentials as a rational deep-thinking individual who minored in philosophy and concluded that G-d does not exist are not in doubt. What the readers of this forum and yourself should gain from this discussion is that perhaps we should be skeptical of the skeptic who admittedly was agnostic by the age of 13 and is now so confident in his assumption of G-d's non existence. The story is told of Bertrand Russel, the famous atheist, who was once asked what he would say if after his death he were brought in front of G-d and asked why he did not believe. Mr. Russel's reply "not enough evidence, not enough evidence!" While I'm not sure how such a response would be taken, I can tell you that there are many cogent arguments for the truth of the Jewish religion and it strikes me as a much greater leap of faith to believe that existence per se is the result of random sequence of events that beg for explanation as my human intuition informs otherwise.

Ron
Las Vegas, NV

March 26, 2010

Thanks Ron but.....

With all due respect Ron I do find your comments very intruiging but would'nt you say it is quite a leap to assume that my thoughts are not refined by a lifelong process of challenging and pondering? I'm wondering what I might have said that would lead you to believe my ideas had not been challenged? Or moreover how you would "know" whether they were or werent the result of vigorous challenge? It would in fact be very difficult to minor in Philosophy without a hard look at epistomology. But I'm not sure I see how this relates to the existence of God? If I happily and enthusiactically grant you that the foundation of all knowledge, scientific/logic included, could be all but a mirage or figment or "mental constraint" (which I more than happy to do for you since I find that notion deliciously interesting) how then would this go to solidify a belief in a theological God's existence? Would'nt that discussion of the limits of human knowledge do just the opposite? Can you elaborate?

Mark
TX / USA
chabadhouston.org

March 26, 2010

Dear Mark

Suppose your glass of water were to drop, but neither fall upwards or downwards? Ahh, but this logically impossible my learned philosopher friend, isn't it? Not for the least of which gravity, which is scientific fact, says so. And scientific facts are require either inductive or deductive reasoning before we can recognize them as scientific fact right? What if the premises are wrong? What if logic itself is a mental constraint as much as gravity a physical one? And while the distinction between positive and negative atheism is hardly important in the grander scheme of things, I wonder how intellectually honest you are if you have not thoroughly investigated the challenges to your beliefs and questioned the epistemological implications thereof?

Ron
Las Vegas, NV

March 25, 2010

Yes - Mr. Feller.

I see no distinction nor difference between proclaiming certainty in man's creation of God and proclaiming certainty in God itself. However if we drill down to the level of detail you seek, indeed, I can not say that I am completely certain that God does not exist, nor did I. However to your point, I am also not certain that if I were to drop my glass of water it will fall upwards towards the ceiling. We can not deny that this is possible. So to that end you are right, in all honesty I can not profess certainty in the non-existence of God. "Lying" is certainly a strong word to select. Perhaps the term "athiest" is what leads you to believe I profess certainty? If "athiest" connotes certainty and "agnosticism" merely connotes doubt, you'll need to place me closer to "athiest" label. There is no convenient label for people in between.

Mark
TX / USA
chabadhouston.org

March 24, 2010

Mark-Jewish Athiest?

How can you be certain that God does not exist? If you are not certain, you should not profess certainty for to do so is akin to lying. If you do not know, admitting to that is the honest thing to do.

Murray F. Feller
m, f

March 23, 2010

A proud Jewish Athiest

I am really surprised that this thread has continued for so long. I contributed to this discussion years ago. I was raised Jewish (reform) and that is my bloodline, however I have taken one too many science and philosophy classes and pondered far too long to think that God is anything more than a human coping device created naturally by man's fears of the unknown. Nonetheless I want to state that I am very proud of my Jewish heritage, the fact that we can civilly debate matters like this in a Jewish forum, the fact that my Rabbi allowed me to freely question God's existence IN MY BARMITSVAH SPEECH! I am proud that we are a educated, learned, open minded, thinking, group of people. I never felt feared or pressured or cooerced into being Jewish. I just wanted to make that point.....and point out that this type of discussion may not occur on many other types of religious forums.

Mark
TX/USA
chabadhouston.org

March 23, 2010

Our Ability To Control

Who ever expressed certainty (or wants to do so) by "lying" and speaking about his "knowledge(!) of G-d" etc.? I think that these things may happen in the world, but they are not very Jewish. And besides: our people are not so stupid: everybody is able to judge by him-herself what he (she) may have touched by his/her own hands, fingers, seen by the own eyes, calculated with his calculator or by brainwork etc.: they, I mean we are able to see, to touch and... to judge whether somebody has told only lies or real pieces of truth. Best regards. Yossi

Anonymous
Vienna, Austria

March 22, 2010

Proof of God's existance

Whatever you believe, it is problematic to profess to others absoluteness of God's existence. This is because you would be expressing certainty without a credible basis for such certainty. In effect, you would be lying by intimating that you have knowledge of God which you do not actually have. You would then be acting falsely which would be in direct opposition to God's teachings. It is better that you profess living according to those teachings until such time, if ever, that God's existence becomes apparent.

Murray F. Feller
Micanopy, Florida

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