What's Wrong With Mixed Services?
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Question:
You insist that men and women have to be separated when it comes to prayer and meditation. But I've attended services where men and women engage in serious meditation and prayer together. I saw women acting as rabbis and cantors and wearing talit and tefillin and being called to Torah—and I saw the joy and passion they had in doing so. Why should it be denied to them? Don't you agree that feminine spirituality needs to be honored in the liturgy, not just in the kitchen and the nursery?
Response:
Much of what you write resonates with me. Women's spirituality is a burning issue today with which the orthodox Jewish world must come to terms. Not enough is being done for today's woman. Where we part, however, is in the suggestion that mixed services are the solution.
Let's back up a little. The common assumption is that spirituality and sensuality are mutually exclusive. Who says? Yes, there is the perfect tzadik who transcends these matters entirely. But I'm talking about the rest of us, for whom the two seem to go hand in hand: The greater the sensitivity to spiritual matters, the more attuned we are to sensual matters as well.1
And that sensuality is not something we are meant to kill. After all, it lies at the core of human spirituality—even of the divinity of the entire cosmos.2 The first human being, the Torah tells us, was created male and female—and that is what the Torah calls the Divine Image. The Divine Presence—the Shechina—rests in the union of man and woman as one—when that union is sanctified by marriage, by keeping the times of separation, and by the hearts and mental focus of two that become one.3 That place is called the Holy of Holies, where "no person shall be" when the Shechina is present.4
If so, it would seem to me that when a normal man watches a woman carrying a Sefer Torah, listens to her voice chanting its words, feels her presence as a member of his group spiritual experience--and is not sensually affected by that experience, then something in that male is either dead or in denial.
In our community (Thornhill, Ontario), several groups of women have begun "Tehillim Groups" which involve much more than reciting psalms. Women sing, pray together, share teachings and come away in an elevated state. As one woman told me, "No one who has come has not seen miracles in her life."
Along with the many Rosh Chodesh groups that are sprouting up, I see these as proliferating and evolving into a uniquely feminine form of group worship and spirituality. Let us men remain men and women be the ultimate of being women. And what we share will be in private, and in holiness.5
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Latest Comments:
What about all the Baal Tshuvas making a big comeback? Who are you to edit Torah for us? For me? I was sent to a nun's school for 7 years because of my parents' Liberal choices, my siblings are lost, I'm the 6th/7 child. I'm the ONLY one in my family who even acknowledges Judaism. Anything less than Orthodox simply put is 'what I want' or 'in my heart' it's evangelical; now I look for what G-d wants of me. I will 'edit' my judaism and my life by default of being human... Give me 'the whole megillah' and don't you liberal evangelists dare try to edit my life's instructions for living. Our Torah. One and Only One.
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Actually I think it is not. It is meant to divide the people who are obligated to conduct a given service, at a given time. Adult men are required to be there. (The reasons for women not being so obligated are discussed elsewhere on the Chabad.org site.) The fence isn't to keep women out, it is used to unify the temporary community inside.
As for the talking, the complainers are correct, if you want to talk to anyone but HaShem, please take it into the hall. (In lots of shusl this problem is on both sides of the room)
Women on the same floor as men, not in a balcony also has to do with space. In North America, we have space, and our buildings spread out. In Europe, and many other parts of the world, there is simply not enough space unless a balcony is used.
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Where I live, there's no need to complain; we have all sorts of synagogues in my neighborhood, and this is a relatively free country, so worship as you see fit. That's what I love about U.S.A.
I used to avoid Orthodox Judaism. I didn't want to be micro-managed by a lot of rules and regulations. I was raised with very secular, liberal, feminist values. I haven't abandoned those values completely; however, the more I learn about Judaism, the more I appreciate the Orthodox. There are things I like about the various movements / denominations, but I am coming to see the Orthodox as possibly the most potent and authentic sort of Judaism. What some call intolerance might just be sticking to high standards worth keeping. I'll admit, for example, that I do get very distracted by pretty ladies. By attending the Orthodox services, I found a much more intense prayer experience.
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That was a spin and twist on the use of the words passion and sensual. Passion and sensual are associated in society with eroticism and sex; still not a good choice to associate with Jewish worship regardless of how you attempt to rationalize it.
For centuries some Jews simply observed more piously than others. Things generally held together. Currently, the liberal branches are quickly drifting into modern western-society assimilation. All non-Orthodox branches are not even at replacement level birth rates and they have high interfaith marriage rates. Orthodox Jews do recognize Jews who practice liberal Judaism as still being Jews. It is the practices the Orthodox do not recognize. Recognition leads to validation and permissiveness. That in turn can eventually lead to their own practices becoming too lenient and tolerant etc into liberalized assimilation. I admire the Orthodox for recognizing all Jews and yet not recognizing their ‘liberal foreign’ practices.
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What do you mean? Women are perfect? Are they completely unlimited? Where did you read that?
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We Jews can fight and bicker all we want. I remind you, when the chips are down, we have no time, no choice but to come together. It is the lesson of Exodus (most Jews stayed in Egypt), pogroms (a Jew is a Jew) and the Holocaust (most Jews were assimilated, secular, or atheists). And 1492 Spain, The Inquisition, thousands converted away from Judaism. Nowhere does it say which religious category of Jew did so. The same goes for the Morronos faction (false converts). And of those who fled, again no account of religious affiliation. Israel today - 50-75% secular. Mechitzas? I wish you said mosquitoes. It is not to poke fun. A Jew is a Jew in the eyes of our enemies/detractors. How this devolved into good and bad Jews by Ahron's post is to miss the point. I would not be looking to fraternize with a Jewish serial killer or a Harry Madoff. Who's side of this mezchita argument is G-d on anyways? Ours. Who are we? Jews. Which kind? ... Sorry, i hear G-d laughing.
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Wow, Anonymous in Chicago, what a lot of jumping to conclusions, assumptions, anger and vitriol! I’m only going to address the “passion” issue and leave the rest alone. It always gets a little difficult when we get into discussions about definitions and semantics. The Rabbi seems to equate “sensuous” and “sexual”. I think sexual is a subcategory of sensuous, as we have many senses of experience other than sexual senses. Smelling the spices at Havdalah is a sensual experience utilized in prayer, as were the spices and incense in The Temple. In addition to the sexual context, “passion” is commonly used in referencing intense enjoyment in many other areas of human experience and expression.. One can be passionate about sports, learning, music, art, and, yes, even about Torah study, prayer and meditation. If it is not too secular for you, I think you’ll find that a good dictionary will bear this out.
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Loving our fellow Jew does not mean accepting and tolerating all lifestyles, behaviors, and actions.
It is politically-correct nonsense to believe that morals, ethics, and laws, are a subjective human choice. Judaism teaches knowing and living right vs. wrong, and judgment vs. toleration. Most lifestyle choices, values, and views are not equal and do not deserve equal respect. That concept is contrary to what the left with their slow social seduction process wants observant Jews to assimilate into believing.
I would rather be faithfully close-minded to embracing and being united with G-d's truth, laws, and love rather than being open-minded to practicing self-worship and to helping further assimilate Jews.
Labelling a Jew as Divisive for being faithful to tradition is akin to far-left bloggers calling people Haters who do not accept their politically-correct values.
I'm still unaffiliated and yet it is Chabad that has turned me on to trusting and loving G-d.
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I score it 100% for Steve on open mindedness.I score it 100% for Harryla on closed mindedness.
Personally i have not seen Spam in a Reform synagogue, nor have i ever been served steak in a Chabad House. I mean that literally and figuratively. So where's the authentic beef ? In the World to Come, of course. Down here we are looking for sizzle at best.
This type of ' score keeping ' turns off the multitude of unaffiliated Jews who yawn when they hear idle banter about which Jewish sect is closest to G-d. Divisiveness isn't cool. When the chips are down, non-Jews do not ask what you believe or your level of religious observance. A Jew is a Jew.
Who was it that said "Love your fellow Jew. Now go and learn." Oh yeah, Hillel. And judging by the comments here, and elsewhere, we still can't get it right.
Mechitza! Who brought this topic up?! More dissension. Just kidding.
Shabbat Shalom or Good Shabbos, or have a great day, whichever is your preference.
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Steve,
I completely disagree with you. Until this year, I have lived as a secular modern assimilated Jew. Thank G-d there is Chabad.
You may want Judaism to assimilate into a modern American politically-correct movement with a progressive agenda. I don’t. You want your spice packet? Go socialize with those who share your assimilated political, social, and spiritual values. Enjoy the hemlock they serve you.
I have never found any services from Renewal to Hassidic that can be described with ‘passion’. I have observed inspirational and joyful services, especially among the Chassidic. The word ‘passion’ is for describing the Kama Sutra or personal intimacy.
I have found the more liberal Jewish movements ‘intolerant, judgmental, and contemptuous’ of anyone who is not like them. Why should the Orthodox accept the practices, values, beliefs, and behaviors of ‘liberal’ Western assimilated forms of Judaism as valid? G-d wrote the Torah and it is not for people to re-write it.
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