For better or for worse, meat is an undeniable favorite on the kosher menu. Is this good? Let's have a look...
70 Comments Posted
interesting article. I love the pun punch line "...the completion of G‑d's universal plan is at steak.' lol.
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What we are learning is that everyone has different dietary requirements, based on genetics. Some people may do well with eating hardly any meat, while others may need to more meat. We all have a need for vitamin B12 which is only found in animal products, so if you are a vegetarian, it is important to supplement with this vitamin.
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That is a good punchline, written with Wisdom beyond compare. Thank You for lightening the mood.
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This was a rationalization to ease people's guilt over the modern meat industry.
1. Google "factory farming" and "cruelty" and click on "video" and see/learn how cruel the industry is today. We orthodox obsess about meat's hechsher and yet blind ourselves to the tzar l'baal chayim of the industry. Men + animals + money ALWAYS = extravagant greed and cruelty.
2. The raising of cattle for us billions entails ongoing destruction of enormous amounts of S. American forests, resulting in ongoing extinctions of many of Hashem's wondrous species. Vast rangelands out west also crowd out wildlife.
3. We have turned meat into a snack. We can eat a lot less of it and learn how to cook with the many grains, veggies, spices, and herbs to make great meals which didn't harm flesh and blood creatures. If you can't be a vegetarian, at least save meat for special occassions.
Slaughtering animals does them a favor? What narcissism! And a turn off to Jews you are trying to reach!
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Unless we think animals are like stones, we need so much faith in G-d to slaughter and eat an animal in his name, with the purpose of elevating it. I suppose that in general, people think that they have this faith, but actually their material desire for meat is the last word. If meat would not be tasty, who would practice this mitzva with the animals so frequently? Therefore, it's obvious that for most people, the consuming of meat is justified for the pleasure, and not for the faith. But it's pleasant to don't think about that (in another words, to misunderstood ourselves). As consequence, the animals are facing the stealing of their lifes. I don't have all this faith in G-d. If one day I repent, my last change will be practicing a sherrita. But probably I'll never get this level. That's why I am a vegetarian.
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Rabbi Davidson fails to address several important issues:
* animal-based diets are contributing to an epidemic of diseases;
* animal-based agriculture emits more greenhouse gases (18% in CO2 equivalents) than all the cars and other means of transportation worldwide combined (13.5%), and global warming threatens all of humanity.
* The production and consumption of meat and other animal products violate basic Jewish mandates to protect human health, treat animals with compassion, preserve the environment, conserve natural resources, help hungry people and pursue peace.
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"if the human being is but another beast, then killing a man is the equivalent of killing of an animal. It was this attitude and behavior which prompted G‑d to cleanse the world with the Great Flood."
WOW great wisdom!
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Hugo,
What do you think it takes to reach this level?
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From the article: "Therefore one should only eat meat if one will be able to accomplish more with the meat than one would be able to with vegetation."
OK, so let's assume for a second that all the current scientifc research and medical studies are accurate and at the end of the day, eating meat shortens your life and is more disease-producing than vegetarianism. Then eating meat actually leads you be capable of accomplishing less, not more.
Is it not then a sin to eat meat?
And if we are not sure whether eating meat means accomplishing more, which side should one err on?
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My grandfather was an ultra-orthodox Kosher butcher. Interestingly, he loved animals and rescued many stray dogs and cats. He even used to bring home birds who had fallen out of their nests and try to nurse them back to health. In fact, his friend, Rabbi Tucazinsky, Rosh Yeshivat Etz Chaim in Jerusalem, used to pet the head of every animal in our house, exclaiming "they are all G-d's creatures." A year before he died, my grandfather had occasion to visit a slaughterhouse (which he had not done in many years). He abruptly closed his shop and stopped eating meat. While he never shared me the details of what he had seen, he indicated that it was so horrific, he could not be a participant on any level.
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Honoring the Shabbat and holidays has nothing to do with meat. And can we really perform more mitzvot by eating meat? And we are allowed, but are we actually required to eat meat? This article is one-sided, biased, and mistaken. By the way, meat consumption is responsible for 18% of greenhouse gasses, and leaves a larger carbon footprint that all planes, trains, trucks, cars, and boats COMBINED! Talk about tikkun olam (as the Reform like to talk about)
Orthodox Vegetarians rule!
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...you might say that orthodox vegetarians rule, but I suppose you know that the Real Ruler is G-d and His will and wisdom is manifested in His Torah-where He allowed the slaughter of kosher animals and the consumption of meat. By the way, the Shulchan Aruch (Code of Jewish Law), prescribes eating meat as part of honoring Shabbat and the holidays, unless one does not enjoy eating it or becomes ill by eating it-not because of animal rights or greenhouse effects-be real!! Is incredible how so many people like to rationalize everything according to their own views and whims
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No such thing. The Torah calls for many animal offerings in the Holy Temple; depending on the category of offering, the meat must either be eaten by the Kohanim on duty and/or the one bringing the offering - or be totally burned on the Altar.
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I feel the Rabbi could have provided a more complete picture of both sides. For instance, he didn't mention that red meat is linked to health problems, meaning this might be (or become) an issue of pikuach nefesh.
The Rabbi didn't mention that Rav Kook was a strong proponent of vegetarianism: "His powerful words on vegetarianism are found primarily in A Vision of Vegetarianism and Peace (edited by Rabbi David Cohen, "The Nazir")."
The Rabbi also didn't mention that meat consumption impoverishes certain continents/countries, because it takes an inordinate amount of grain to feed the cattle that we eat (grain and foodstuffs we could be giving to starving people).
There are many other "pro-vegetarian" points from a Torah standpoint. The Torah certain permits meat-eating, but I'm not sure it "encourages" it given what we are learning today. A more well-rounded view would have better served the readers.
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It is not that one has 2kill an animal 2show that one is different from it. People refrain from killing animal owing 2the ethic of it as our understanding of how we are part of an eco-system just as well. Superiority has nothing to do in this issue.
It should however be acknowledged that animals feel pain and have emotions.
Uri from Orlando has got it all wrong when he posits G-d in a destructive one-way avenue. Greenhouse issue is real, animals should b treated with more dignity, production of grains & vegetables should not b solely directed towards the production of meat at the expense of millions of poor on the brink of famine and water shortage.
We therefore have 2change our ways 2 adress these issues in a REAL perspective and not through religious injunctions which would worsen the problem if followed dogmatically.
Vegetarians may b sentimental over animal killing but they r so right in what they do as the benefits outweighs by far any so called G-ds dietary laws!
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Dear Randy,
You asked me:
What do you think it takes to reach this level?
It's a good question. Hard to answer.
In one side, a rational side, the animals have the interest in its life, freedom and integrity, because they are sentient. They don't care about our beliefs.
Therefore, in the other side, a supernatural side, you need to trust so much in G-d, to be able to make or agree with a sherrita, because you are not just practicing your religion for youself, you are intervening in another's life! (in the case, the animal's life, sentient beings).
That's why you need so much faith in G-d to get to this point (that in a rational view, is awful, unfair).
In conclusion, I don't know how to get to this level.
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Rav Kook's view is mentioned in the article in the footnotes (3). The author writes that Rav Kook "insists that this ideal is not to be assumed as the norm until the coming of Moshiach when human nature will be completely refined. Until then, he warns, such restrictions may have detrimental effects on man's moral behavior."
Interestingly, for those that question the sacrifice of animal life in order to maintain a our moral standards, I'm surprised the author did not mention that one group which was very concerned with animal welfare in recent times was .... the Nazis.
Recently, a major study was published showing that lots of red meat increases mortality risk: tinyurl.com/dljkzb
However, the study did not rule our that meat as part of a balanced diet can actually prevent chronic disease. The focus was that, if consumed EXCESSIVELY, meat will make you sick.
Driving a car also produces greenhouse gasses, and owning one impoverishes those we could've given the money we spent.
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...obviously you view Torah as man-made and imperfect. My view is completely the opposite. So is not that I have it all wrong-it is ,that I just believe in a completely set of values. I believe in a G-D given divine Torah. People don't die of hunger in the world because of the reasons you stated above , but by the greed and lack of compassion that humans have displayed througout the ages.
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I do not disagree with the what u said about greed & lack of compassion Uri... However it is just a blunt comment with no focus on the issue at hand...What can we do to stop human from dying owing 2 greed & lack of compassion?...Should we continue 2 stuff our face with meat produced from grains explicitly produced in poorer countries 4 the production of meat 2 be sold 2 rich countries? ARENT WE THE ONES WHO R GREEDY AND LACK COMPASSION? Compassion towards whom? Man, animals, environment, ourselves!
If we change our diet & consume more vegetables instead, we could stop meat production on a mass scale, forest being cleared out, grains & water resources being diverted solely for meat production, reduce methane emission owing 2 meat industry (the greatest polluter on earth even more than co2 from use of motorized vehicles). It is the demand 4 meat that drives entrepreneurs 2 put so much resources into meat production with the results being an acceleration in global warming! Wake up Man!
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I was a vegetarian for ten years. I read a great deal on Judaism and vegetarianism at the time. I would go so far as saying as I was an activist.
But
I got sick. I became anemic. Yes yes, i was eating properly. I even went to a dietician. I was put on supplements but in my view, being on supplements and not food, is not a good thing.
Eating excesses of anything isn't good for you, whether its animal protein or fruit or what have you.
Perhaps we should be eating EXCESSIVELY, which is really more the problem these days.
And someone asked about if eating meat is unhealthy and we are doing our body harm, how about the opposite - what if i am doing harm by the lack of vitamins from NOT eating animal protein?
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You wrote:
"Interestingly, for those that question the sacrifice of animal life in order to maintain a our moral standards, I'm surprised the author did not mention that one group which was very concerned with animal welfare in recent times was .... the Nazis."
I have heard this from many people, and it is far from the truth. It was not on the Nazi agenda to be kind to animals, and many of their gaurd dogs suffered from pure brutality, which shouldn't surprise us. Even if it WAS true, by logical extension, if the Nazis were good to their mothers, should we therefore not be good to our mothers? Or if they liked pizza, then we shouldn't like pizza?
And please explain to me again how killing animals preserves our moral standards? Can we all just at least cut way back on our use of animal products?
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I just heard that shrimp was okay to eat.
I hope I wasn't misinformed, as shrimp has become a meal that I eat about 4 x a month.
Please let me know.
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Shame
How can someone think that the dead of one is the salvation of an other...
I do not accept the teaching that by eating meat and sacrifice of animals we elevate that being (animal)...
Life is a sacred thing and we should not kill at less we are in a situation of din rodef..that is protecting our own life of that of others...that means we should sanctify life and let the animals live...
Thinking to elevate by killing is a very dangerous and erroneous idea...
Why exicst the teaching that wolf and lamb will stay near one another without the wolf hurting the lamb...when the Mashiah comes
also the animals will have peace from us humans...
There was a great thinker, Nobel prize Literature, with the name of Isaac Bashevis Singer who could teach many of the righteous in their one eyes many things
Sorry but I feel revolted against those weaklings that use their lust for meat and transform it in mesorah..but with little m...
Shalom to all life G-d created
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guys try to become like Adam and do not eat meat . if you can be like Adam in his first day then you may not meat . in truth you non have to eat any thing .
To the guy of shrimp
Any jew in the world knows shrimp is NOT KOSHER
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1) You can't elevate the life that you kill..who r U to do that? The guy who wrote that is plain psychotic!
2) Killing for meat when there r alternatives in times of plenty should get all of us thinking on our actions.
3) Is our pleasure more important than life of an animal ?
4) Is it ok to kill 3 animals a day for our meal?
5) Is is ok to eat mammals considering they produce milk & nurture their youngs just like human beings?
6) Would u be able to kill an animal with ur own hands urself if there were no butcher to do it 4 u?
7) Isn't animal sacrifice an animist ritual?
8) To what extent should we eat meat or not?
9) Why is the suffering of an animal condoned in rituals? How important can that be?
10) Shouldn't we rethink our relationship with the animal kingdom without falling into any excesses of the past and present?
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if we eat meat is it possible that the energy of the animal becomes a part of us.... as we are capable of certain things that animals can not do or perceive, we may in fact be elevating the energy of the animal or fish to a higher level, then intern by doing a good deed with this energy such as helping another human being or saving a life, we may be also helping our own race. So all may indeed benefit on a higher level.
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I was offended by the end of the comment posted: "The guy who wrote that is plain psychotic!", I feel that this should be removed form the comments, as it appears to be in violation of the posting guidelines of this website.
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I think it's plain psychotic to snuff out the life of a carrot? who are you to do that?
One of my favorite bumper stickers reads, "Save a Cow, Eat a Vegetarian".
Who decides who and what should be eating whom? Unless you believe in G-d given morals, and G-d apparently doesn't have a problem with keeping man alive at the price of animal life.
Hello vegetarians! The world is here for a purpose, not just to stay status quo!
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It is clear that the G-d intended for humans to refrain from meat. So vegetarians are fulfilling his will. Even when he allowed meat after the flood, he still made it difficult via kashrut. To-date, there is no specific blessing for meat as opposed to fruit, vegetables and bread.
On a moral level, the current practice of the meat industry is an affront to the concept of kashrut. (Meatpackers have been shut down, as we know). How is it that we state that an animal which is killed by the knife is humanely slaughtered while ignoring the brutal factory-intensive confinement of the living creature? Shall we ignore years of the hardship just to comply with five seconds of ritual slaughter? That is not kashrut. That is not compassionate judaism. Our children can easily elevate themselves without partaking of this cruelty which in no way is commanded.
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It is very clear that the plan after moshiach is a vegetarian and non violent world. Eating meat is a dispensensation, not a commandment, (as was the 'spies').
It is very unfortunate that people, even tzaddikim, can go out of their way to justify there own behavior. There are talmudic and modern poskim that can be found to support almost any action one could wish to engage in.
The change required to restrict oneself from a needless pleasure in order to prevent needless suffering, and harm, appears to be such a difficult task, that few are willing to contemplate it. People generally also have the tendency to strongly, emotionally and vehemently defend their actions.
Man has the ability to opt out of the normal order of things. As tzelem Elokim, we have the ability to choose not to live as ruled by the animal instinct.
I am not in any way saying that animal life is equal to human life. However, when the choice arises, that is viable, to avoid suffering--it should be made.
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Wishing everyone a very Happy and kosher Passover -- and that includes enjoying the things G-d gave us permission to eat, especially on the holidays, such as chicken, beef and fish. When Mashiach comes we will have to slaughter and eat the Paschal lamb on the eve of Pesach -- that's one of G-d's commandments... guess vegetarians will have a big problem!..No bocaburgers substitute...Chag Sameach!!!
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I am sorry, but I beg to differ with these statements on both an intellectual and emotional basis.
Intellectually, there are many halachos for which a sin is punishable by stoning, lashing etc. Further, bigamy is condoned in the Torah. We would not think of these conditions today. Why? In the case of kosher shechting, it represented a vast improvement in humanity over conditions at that time...as did punishment and family structure. As civilizations progress, the standard has changed, and these 'improvements' are not relevant as such today. There are many rabbis that suggest that sacrifices in the 3rd Beis HaMikikdash will not be animal, as in days of old.
In a past time, animals were well cared for by their shephards. Today, the conditions are not the same. Emotionally...I have seen conditions, at least in the US that are abhorrent by any standard. There is no one on Heaven or Earth that can tell me that G-d sees these happenings and smiles.
People dont change. It is sad
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Obviously, like I said to another one before you, you do NOT believe that the Torah is Divine; therefore the "improvements" you mention are not relevant today. So, in your opinion anything can be changed and dispose of, according to human rationalizations. You view Torah as a history book or as culture, I view it as G-D's wisdom and instruction for His people in particular,and to the world in general.
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It is interesting to note that all the pro-vegetarians are making the point that eating meat is permitted, not commanded. Based on that alone, juming from there to the argument that meat is forbidden is illogical. Also, I do not think the premise is true. The Rambam counts properly slaughtering an animal as one of the 613 Mitzvos. There is a blessing the slaughterer makes before slaughtering the animal. This does not mean that one is obligated 24/7 to properly slaughter meat or eat it, but when someone does slaughter or eat properly slaughtered meat he is fulfilling a Mitzvah. Therefore someone should have this in mind whenever he eats meat. If someone doesn't then he is merely satisfying his desires. If someone has in mind to eat meat as part of a balanced diet, it is also acceptable but not as good. But if he has in mind to fulfill the Mitzvah that G-d commanded us to do, then eating meat is a wonderful thing which elevates both him and his food.
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I was ovo-lacto-vegetarian (eating eggs and dairy) for almost 30 years. Last fall, I became sick for 4 months, missing work during that period. Now I eat kosher poultry and kosher fish (still no meat). I realize that any extreme is unhealthy, whether relying mostly on animal products or avoiding them entirely. While I value my health most of all, I still regret that any animal should die for me.
Animals don't have rights. However, the environmental issues are absolutely real and require a reduction in meat consumption to avoid destroying the biosphere. Also, animals should not be mistreated - this is our responsibility as humans.
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There's nothing like rationalizing the unneeded killing of animals to satisfy your taste for steak. This post makes me sick and I think that many rabbis would disagree with you. Meat eating may have been more natural years ago before the commercialization of the meat industry. Regardless of whether or not the slaughter of animals is kosher it's still inhumane (no matter how sharp the knife is).
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Some minds are like concrete all mixed up and set...There is no changing them for they never want to listen to reason or even to their own conscience and use G-d as an excuse to rationalize and perpetrate all forms of needless violence against animals who do not stand a chance of even defending themselves in this world full of so called "G-d knowing people".
Cruelty 2 animals cannot be justified by referring to G-d's words when you are the perpetrator! How about owning up 2 your deeds and be responsible for your action in all consciousness instead of hiding behind scriptures? Did scriptures mention global warming or Cars or the internet? These are the stuffs one has to use personal judgment and reason to go about! Why is it so hard 2 do the same with animals? But some people will never have the courage 2 do that for they are stuck in their choice of believing in a particular way! In the meantime mother nature doesn't wait 4 X or Y 2 change their ways 2 have a bite at us in return!
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Dear Hal/Former Vegetarian,
With all due respect, kosher or not, the stuff that sits on the bones of chicken and fish is meat.
With regards to living a vegetarian lifestyle and it's unhealthiness -- you did it for 30 years and the Hindu people have done it for many millenia. Please do not think I am being insensitive to your prior illness but my guess is that it's relationship to your diet was misdiagnosed.
Question -- Why don't animals have rights? That is such an odd, odd statement. If they don;t have rights then, who cares if they are mistreated at all; they're just animals, right?
2 things are harder to get with a meat fee diet - protein (which can be gotten from beans, tofu, eggs, nuts, yogurt, milk, veggie burger type products) and vitamins B6/12 (can be gotten from kosher B6/12 pills). I am hard pressed to believe any doctor that tells me a vegetarian diet is detrimental to my health (unless I became allergic to any of the above mentioned sources of protein)
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"According to this approach, it may be cruel to not eat meat, because doing so robs the animal of its chance to serve a higher purpose."
This is one of the silliest statements I have ever read.
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Not eating meat and elevating animals to a position as high as humans is A CULT, a DANGEROUS CULT, favoured by the Nazis at their earliest onset. And I say this as a woman who loves animals and has never been without many many dogs for my entire life except for one bitter six month interval.
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To Mrs. Hermine Stover
Their have been and will always be mystics who don't eat meat or fish..learn the teachings of Ibn Ezra
A Jew should not use nor mention n.a.z.i 's
(may their name be blotted out) to discuss matters with other Jews
As a matter of loving dogs...?
Listen to your heart 'kalev?...
I don't belong to any cult, but I'm a vegetarian...
My only cult is love for G-d's creation..
And I think animals like life to...
I think eating meat or not should be a personal choice...
As the ignoramous should not eat meat
I like to consider myself as not capable to 'elevate' the dead meat..
So now I gave you a hypocite halachic excuse...
But the truth is ..I heard 'You shall not kill'..and may'be I'm ignorant as I didn't hear any special mention...that said 'You do shall kill animals'
As everything, as I understand, will be on a higher level in the time of Messiah...it is not so strange as to imagine animals be elevated without killing them
To all Light
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Humans are not animals. I repeat HUMANS ARE NOT ANIMALS. G-d gave us food to eat. Everything is made for a purpose. Smaller aniumals for larger animals. Then, why did G-d crerate cows? To sit in the fields all day? Just produce milk and no other resource to the meat that has developed. Then, what is the purpose of a shokhet? Chikens are also considered meat. Wansn't is G-d who sent us Mannah while we were in the wilderness, did he not too, sent us meat. So that we may eat of it.
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Daniel was a veggitarian, and it is recorded in Daniel(the Book) that he was in better health than the kings other servants because of it.
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By not eating meat, one is deprived of the mitzvah of separating milk meals and meat meals. In fact, if we were not supposed to eat meat according to Halacha, why would we have a rule to keep meat and milk separate? it is a falacy against JUDAISM itself to say that we SHOULD BE or OUGHT TO BE vegetarians.... ALSO our bodies are designed to be omnivorous, our teeth, our digestive systems. Please do not lecture me on the mention of our ENEMIES as being improper in a "certain" context. The elevation of Animals to a status above certain PEOPLE was the rationale for performing "experiments" on our people by filth like Mengele.
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I've always wondered whether or not they are clasified as fish by the Torah. If they are then they're kosher, but if they are classified as creeping things then they are not.
Fish must have both fins and scales to be kosher. Shrimp have these. But are they fishes?
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Daniel, in captivity, was careful not to eat defiled food and ate sparsely. And afterwards was in better condition than those who had glutted themselves on the food of non-believers. This is hardly an argument for vegetarianism, it is all about maintaining Jewishness in the presence of non believers, even as a captive.
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I wish I never had to eat an animal. I don't believe animals need elevating-the multitude of delightful creatures that live here on our organic vegetarian farm (kangaroos, ducks, lizards, birds, koalas) as well as cats and dogs I've met, are far better company and friends than many of the humans I know.
Maybe animals need an ELEVATOR; a crane or a rocket to lift them out of reach of the burger-munching hordes.
I eat meat as rarely as possible, and mostly not at all. I need to consider, however, that G-d has deemed death to be the suitable destiny for us ALL- ants, carrots, sheep and humans. I choose to believe therefore that the life-after-life is good, of G-d.
ALL B'nei Noach (including Israel) have a LAW to be kind to animals.
In closing, I think the mosquito is the best animal joke that G-d made up to play on us arrogant humans. He formed an insect that makes us smack ourselves in the face REALLY HARD, in the dark, and still miss! I think He get a good laugh every time it happens. I sure do!
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"Daniel, in captivity, was careful not to eat defiled food and ate sparsely. And afterward was in better condition than those who had glutted themselves on the food of non-believers"
I wonder how much truth there is in the belief that a chicken killed according to Kosher rites is "elevated" instead of a chicken killed & roasted in a non-kosher way? Is the chicken killed outside kosher rite worst off than its more fortunate counterpart which was "elevated"?
It is really unfair for the chicken which has been ripped of its life by "non-believers" who fail to "elevate" chicken the only way there is! LOL! This is why this concept of "elevation" through rites is not very plausible & require reconsideration.
A dietary rule is meant to keep us in good health not keep us in an unhealthy relationship with our environment & other people through hardened beliefs pushed to a ludicrous extreme. Once this is gotten over, people will start to realize how it is not a "must" to kill & eat animals.
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I can never recover from the brilliance by which Judaism infiltrated by CULTS which seek to undercut the very legs of Judaism, using out-of -context quotes from CULTISTS like PETA and H$U$ and others who say that vegetarianism is the only holy and sacred form of existence. If we were supposed to be vegetarians it would have been a LAW, written in STONE and given to one of our Holy Prophets by G-d to all Jews. We would not have to be peering into the details of various of our Ancients for times when they did not eat meat because of special circumstances. FOR SHAME, our ANCIENT and G-d-Given RELIGION to be defiled by CULTISTS like PETA and HSUS, which does NOTHING for the well being of animals NOTHING, it is nothing but a fund raising scam cult.
Ingrid Newkirk, inventor of PETA said that a chicken meal is A HOLOCAUST ON A PLATE. and these are the enemies of our faith with whom you align yourselves!
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So to refrain from meat is a to join a cult? And just because we are allowed to eat meat, is there no possibility that maybe it's preferrable not to? As far as I know, there is no specific commandment that we MUST eat meat. There are many commanments, however, that command us not to inflict even emotional stress on animals, let alone physical stress.
As for PETA, in spite of the fact that it does things i don't agree with, overall, it has acomp[lished and continues to accomplish some very important anti-cruelty endeavors.
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I suggest you research PETA yourself so you do not accuse me of saying untrue things about them. and while you are at it, the same for HSUS. PETA IS A MURDERER OF ANIMALS. you read it right, a MURDERER.
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The debate goes on, with the extremists at both ends shouting at each other. Both extremes are wrong.
Some say it is a sacrilege to refuse anything that God permits us. Please show me a YouTube video of you eating locusts and kit'niyoth during Pesach, both permitted by the Torah. If eating locusts disgusts you, eating red meat disgusts me.
Others have kindly offered their amateur diagnoses of me, despite a lack of medical credentials. My doctor called me malnourished after 30 years of ovo-lacto-vegetarianism, with provable nutritional deficiencies. Soy is not the answer to all of life's problems - even with daily multivitamin-multimineral supplements. I am sorry to say that restoring my health has required fish and poultry.
For those who still believe in animal rights, I want to know who enforces those rights. Does the family of an animal killed by another animal have a right to sue the government for failure to protect it?
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I agree, at the least, the radicals on both sides are losing sight of the original question. Yes, animals do not have a soul, and are not on the same level as humans. Yes, they were created so that we may (read: may) eat of them. At the same time, some people choose not to do so, and they are not members of a dangerous cult. Restrictive diets have been known by the sages for spiritual elevation. Eating meat may simply not be nutritionally necessary for others (to soy critics -- look at hemp, which by contrast is a complete protein). What was the question that sparked the intrigue? How does Judaism view vegetarianism -- is it favored or discouraged by the Torah. That is still a great question. What, in fact, is the spirit of the Torah, what is the deeper "ideal state", perhaps as would exist after the coming of the Messiah? I offer one humble thing to consider -- of the animals we are permitted to eat, are they themselves vegetarian?
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I'm a little confused, but would your "ideal state" include bacon wrapped shrimp with melted cheddar cheese? I haven't had anything like that in years.
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I need not to be here. It horrifies me to see Judaism tainted by a cult. PETA is a cult. Its founder Ingrid Newkirk, wants upon her death to be publicly roasted and her body fed to those who witness this. PETA and HSUS together are responsible for massive numbers of animals being killed, not kindly and not for any useful or good reason. I would rather retreat into believing that Jews are largely immune from taking up these heathen thoughts. and Yes, I do love my dogs as pets, and being carnivores, they too eat meat.
I will not be speaking here any longer.
BE JEWS! and be well.
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It is a shame that the rabbis didn't write anything (that I am aware of) about the ethical treatment of animals before they are killed. We pay so much attention to how they are killed, but not enough to how they are treated while they are alive. Then when organizations like PETA show the cruel conditions under which they live we cry foul. Perhaps the rabbis never anticipated that man would mistreat the animals that would eventually feed us, but that is not an excuse to continue to do so. Is there no rabbinical group that will speak out against the mistreatment of the living animals, and stop the companies that subject these defenseless creatures to inhumane living conditions. I am so proud of us if I may use that word, that blessings are said over the animals, that they must be killed humanely, but surely they should not suffer in life, and only be honored in death. I would like to see a rabbinical group speak out for the ethical treatment of living animals,
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If the author or others at Chabad.org see this, please answer the following. I don't see how that after the flood we could elevate anything. I thought that this wasn't possible until after the giving of the Torah at har Sinai.
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I believe respectfully, that Rabbi Davidson’s thoughtful article overlooks some very important factors:
1. The production and consumption of meat and other animal products arguably violate basic Jewish mandates to preserve human health, treat animals compassionately, protect the environment, conserve natural resources, help feed hungry people, and pursue peace,
2. Livestock agriculture is contributing significantly to global warming and other environmental threats to all of humanity. A landmark 2006 report by the United Nations Food and Agricultural Organization estimated that livestock production globally is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions (in CO2 equivalents) than the world's entire transportation sector.
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35,000 American scientists signed a petition very recently adamantly, scientifically contradicting global warming. CO2 is not a pollutant. We can put every man, woman, and child on Earth, in their own home, on a decent piece of property, just in the speck on the planet called Texas. We are an insignificant part of this planet who can no more harm it with our emissions than carpenter ants. Our negligible emissions of it cause nothing the planet can't handle. When 50 billion dollars is spent to prove man influenced global warming and only 250 million to disprove it, what "science" do you expect to get?
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Rachel G;Yes!What breaks my heart more than anything is cruelty to children and animals.I believe there is a special torment awaiting people who do these things,in the World to Come.
It appears that I am not alone in finding the "mitzvah" of eating meat an extremely dubious one.During the Omer,I found myself praying for the "rebuilding of the Beit HaMikdash",but with VERY mixed feelings,because as I understand it,when the Temple is rebuilt,the animal slaughter (Sacrifice) is meant to resume.
The thought of millions of Jews coming up to Yerushalayim,with all their birds and livestock screaming,and of the Temple running in rivers of blood sends shudders right through me.
If Tikkun Olam has as its aim the remaking of Gan Eden,then surely vegetarianism MUST be our goal.Adam and Chava DID NOT eat meat.Why do we need a Rabbinical Group to promote this?Why shouldn't EVERYBODY do something about it,starting with not eating meat?Keeping a kosher kitchen is then SO MUCH EASIER too: BONUS!!
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Being a NA & having had a farm, I was impressed about the Jewish view of animals. My tribes used nets, not hooks when fishing. Jews do the same & we don't fish for the fun of it and then throw them back. We also never hunted as a sport, but used darts and nets to minimize trauma, as Jews did when they hunted with my people. Even our slaughter is like kosher, as many tribes have followed. i know there is a problem with huge corporate ranches, but we only buy from family owned organic farms, even for eggs and they are kosher. If more non-Jews followed the Noachide Precepts, this issue would not have been dumped on Jews as the scapegoat when it is the nonkosher firms that are getting away with inhumane treatment of their animals & their employees. My own aunt & her fellow truckers have testified to stop companies from using live piglets as baseballs, or abandon newborn calves to freeze on the roadways. Supporting small kosher farms would be a good start for us all
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Hmmm...that is a stretch.
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Shrimp have neither fins nor scales. They are a creeping thing of the ocean and are NOT kosher.
Those of us on gluten free diets live much better without bread.
For those arguing the nutritional costs/benefits of omnivore or vegetarian eating (carnivores eat only meat, not healthy for humans) please remember that your personal story is not proof of what everyone should do. We all know there are plenty of vegetarians who are very healthy so we know it is possible. If eating (or not eating,) a specific food is bad for one person that does not make it bad for someone else For example, I would not recommend other people go without wheat, barley, spelt, most oats, and millet just because I have to! These foods harm me, not anyone else in my family, let alone most of my friends!
Grandma said it in Yiddish: "For instance is not proof."
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I thought legend has it that G-d gave permission to eat meat only because he knew mankind was weak and lusted for meat. When they left Egypt, were they not to eat only manna? Did not G-d punish the Israelites for lusting for meat(Num 11:34)?
Like all lusting, this seems like something we should strive to overcome. Very confused about all the conflicting stories from a biblical and talmudic standpoint!!
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The Vegans and Vegetarians I know seem to fit into two groups. One group seems to think they are above humans that eat meat and the other seem to think they are above any diety and humans. I tried it being vegetarian for 4 years, just to make keeping kosher in my area easier. I was glad when a store near me started carrying kosher meats.
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I am 0-type blood-group, and suffer from anaemia when I don't eat meat. I once tried to donate blood after 6 months of vegetarianism, and they wouldn't accept my blood: too low in haemoglobins. I went home and cried for the lamb as I cooked it.
Nowadays, I am mostly vegetarian, with meat once or twice a month. The list of non-meat foods available to us, from A through to Z, is virtually endless, with delightful variety. It does take far more planning and effort to obtain all the right nutrients, however.
I know if I ever visited a slaughtering house, I would never touch meat again. I feel that kindness to animals is our ideal as Jews, but balance is what is feasible for most of us. That's why I limit my meat intake to as little as possible, and take Iron tablets. Sadly, I must admit that I never feel stronger or more energetic than when I eat a lot of meat, with my blood-type. What to do? If everyone even REDUCED their meat intake, the world would be a much better place. Shalom
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King Solomon, from our Holy Torah, says that we have "no pre-eminence above a beast." I find this interesting:
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that man hath no pre-eminence above a beast; for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all return to dust.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man whether it goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast whether it goeth downward to the earth?
22 Wherefore I perceived that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his works; for that is his portion; for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?
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G-d was not punishing the Jews for lusting after meat per se. If a group of Jews had taken an animal and made it into kosher meat, fine. He was angered by the ungratefulness they had for the manna, toward G-d. These people had just had the ten plagues work to their benefit, just escaped from the most powerful nation in the world by having the sea split for them, a few other miracles, and the manna appeared each morning. And their response was "We want meat." The chutzpah of the statement is astounding!!
The Jews in the desert could either buy food and water from the people in the lands they traveled through, or if in a place long enough, they could raise crops. Anyone who planted knew that there was a very real chance that the camp would move before anything could be harvested. Doing so would distract the person from Torah study, but it would have been okay.
Rachel G.
Halacha is quite detailed in how to treat animals. All pet owners should check these laws.
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While it is true that until the giving of the Torah there could be no enduring and complete fusion of the material and spiritual, there was some degree of elevation of the physical and imbuing G-dliness in the mundane before then as well. The ultimate expression of this was the commandment of circumcision, which even before the giving of the Torah already had some capability of making the physical body holy.
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