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Do Homosexuals Fit into the Jewish Community?

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Question:

According to Jewish law, how should a person react to homosexual feelings? Do homosexuals fit into the Jewish community?

Answer:

You ask about feelings and law. But feelings do not fall within the domain of law. A person feels what a person feels. Then he has the power to decide whether he will act upon those feelings or… not. This is the human experience: desire, longing, wanting…and the law. Part of our development from childhood to adulthood is creating for ourselves a moral compass. Something that's internal. That which tells us right from wrong. And that moral compass is comprised of myriad components, but must be firmly grounded, always, in a system of values.

For Jews, the all-encompassing system is Torah law. Torah law governs every single part of living. And from the body of Torah law emerges a system of values - general, societal and personal. Sometimes, it's easy; we feel an affinity, for example, to the laws of tzedaka, or we feel a strong connection to the laws of Shabbat or brit milah. And sometimes, we feel something quite the opposite - we feel estranged or disconnected or personally deeply at odds with a law.

We feel what we feel. Some feelings we can change, and some we can't. Sometimes what we feel is subject to modification, and sometimes it's not. Totally and unequivocally not. And yet, the law is absolute.

As much as we know about human sexuality, we don't yet know enough. We're all, as individuals and as a society, still learning. In the last half century, we've come a long way in our understanding of human sexuality, and in redefining a cultural moral code. Some of what we've come to accept as a socity is long, long overdue. And some of what we've come to accept undermines the very dignity of human sexuality. But, we're learning.

We do know this, though: we know that among other sexual behviours, Torah law expressly forbids the specific act of male homosexuality.

And we do know this: Torah law forbids bigotry; homophobia is prohibited.

And we do know this: too many Jewish girls and boys, Jewish women and men, have suffered too much for too long. And we know that most of that suffering is caused by the environment around them. We do know this: when we become judges of another person, we behave contrary to Torah law.

And we do know this: A Jew belongs in a Jewish environment. Each of us, struggling or not, needs to be in a truly Torah-observant environment. And each of us is responsible for that environment - each of us is responsible for what we bring to that environment. When we bring ignorance, or cruelty or self-righteous judgment of others, we contribute to the sullying of a true Torah environment. When we bring the most ideal principles of ahavat Yisrael, respect for every individual, recognition of each individual's personal relationship with G‑d...when we bring the best of our humanity, as expected by Torah ideals, we contribute to a Torah environment that is healthy and wholesome.

Or perhaps your question is in regard to how we should react to the homosexual feelings of others? Or how we should react to someone who eats on Yom Kippur? Or someone who longs for the relationship with a man other than her husband? On this, the classic work known as the Tanya provides strong advice: Consider what it means to have such burning passions for forbidden fruit. Consider the day to day fierce and relentless battle demanded to conquer such passions. And then ask yourself, "Do I ever fight such a battle on my own ground?"

The Tanya continues to illustrate the many areas in which all of us can improve by waging at least a small battle on our own ground.

On your question concerning community: A Jew belongs within a Jewish community. There are no application forms and no qualification requirements. He's Jewish—that's where he belongs. Period. We all have our challenges, our shortcomings, our feelings...and our failures in battle as well...and with all that, we are a community of Jews.

By Bronya Shaffer
Mrs. Bronya Shaffer is a noted globetrotting lecturer on Jewish women's issues, and serves as a personal counselor and mentor for women, couples and adolescents. Mrs. Shaffer, a responder for Chabad.org’s Ask the Rabbi service, lives with her ten children in Crown Heights, Brooklyn.
The content on this page is copyrighted by the author, publisher and/or Chabad.org, and is produced by Chabad.org. If you enjoyed this article, we encourage you to distribute it further, provided that you comply with the copyright policy.
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Discussion (94)
March 31, 2013
As a religious individual who has strong same sex attraction (but never acted on the attraction) I find this essay the most thoughtful and most sensitive of any answers I ever heard. I went through my course of therapy and speaking to rabbis. There is no 'cure' and living with this in an orthodox (especially chassidic) community is a hell of its own special kind. I don't associate myself with the non-religious world of gay rights, but I also never feel that anyone in my own community has anything but disdain or worse for me. Please put this article very prominent on this site as this is a major issue today.
Simcha
January 30, 2013
Re: Leviticus Passage Question
It is true that the category of "the homosexual" is quite new, and that the Torah does not treat a type of person, but a type of behavior. Interpreting the Torah's prohibition to refer to "heterosexual" men is untenable for the same reason: it is discussing an activity, not a type of person. The Torah applies to all Jews equally, regardless of whether a person has a desire for a particular act or not, or how that desire manifests itself. Although the verse in the Torah is pretty clear without undue contortion, the Talmud leaves no room for doubt that it is intercourse with a man which the verse forbids. There is also a Torah prohibition against a person performing other intimate or affectionate acts with another with whom they are forbidden to have relations, called "Lo Tikrevu," "you should not come close."
Rabbi Shmary Brownstein
Chabad.org
January 14, 2013
"Leviticus passage question"
Facts are disliked by people who wish something written 3,500 years ago to fit into some category invented in the late 1800's. Since there was no concept of The Homosexual until the late 1800's, I think Baruch is correct that the Torah could not have forbidden Homosexuality.

All we have is a regulation on the manner in which two males should not have sex and based upon the exact words and our knowledge of Jewish attitudes thousands of years ago, the regulation most likely is directed at men who behaved like woman. Did this mean no cross dressing? Did it mean no "queens"? Is anal sex being like a woman? If it is against anal sex, is it limited to the top or to the both?

If the regulation means anal sex, then it obviously is not against "The Homosexual," as one can be Gay and have sex 5 times a day and never have anal intercourse. Ignorant people think that Gay Sex requires anal sex.
Rick Abrams
Beverly Hills
November 5, 2012
Leviticus passage question
Could the infamous Leviticus passage, "Thou shalt not lie with another man as you would lie with a woman." been directed at the heterosexual family man? It's no secret that a very large number of heterosexual men are obsessed with anal sex and might have sought it outside the home if their wives didn't want to have this kind of intercourse or if his wife was confined to the Red Tent for a period of time and he was getting 'shpilkes'. I don't see how it is possible that this commandment was directed towards 'homosexuals' as there was no 'homosexual community or consciousness' at the time.
Baruch
Los Angeles
October 13, 2012
Homosexuality
God wanted gay people on this planet just like he wanted straight people, bisexuals, transgendered people, and everyone else who may live a different lifestyle. He also created free will...I don't understand how anyone can judge LOVE so harshly. SEXUALITY is fluid and universal and that's the way it should be. If you don't agree with the whole idea of homosexuality then don't be apart of it. It's as simple as that. If you run into a gay couple looking happy and satisfied, think before you open your mouth. Words are powerful, but actions harm and affect lives. Many Jews face anti-semitism but the sad part is that many Jews as well as other bigots in the world hate on gay people. Why? Just because a person may love the same sex doesn't mean that they are sinners. Who are you to judge? You're not the one who created gay people...Hashem created gay people. I cannot wait till gay marriage is legalized in all 50 states. I hope it is in my lifetime :)
Anonymous
Columbus, OH
June 11, 2012
As a straight woman, it must be very easy for Bronya to "fit into the Jewish community" - after all, she is never denied the right to share a mutual bond with the person she loves; nor will her mutual relationships ever be condemned as unnatural, immoral, inhuman, or undeserving of equal rights. Chabad thinks they are being "welcoming" towards queer Jews, but in reality they are simply alienating the people they claim to support. They will not persuade many queer Jews (with the possible exception of a few masochists or those in denial) to join the fold. While I'm sure Bronya has good intentions and does not have any personal grievances with queer people, the fact is that her societal privilege as a straight person is clouding her ability to accurately understand the conflicts queer Jews face.
Anonymous
Twilight Zone
May 27, 2012
Homosexual Jews
The need for love and sexual expression springs from the very essence of who we are as humans. Some Orthodox rabbis believe that gays can be changed because it's a choice. Acting on an urge may be a choice, but not fundamental preferences or the need for love and partnership. If we keep going this way, Jewish youth will keep killing themselves or leaving Orthodox life, as they often do. Anyone who is able to put aside homosexuality and be happily married is simply not that gay. It's on a scale. What about Orthodox lesbians? It is pointless to advocate that people deny themselves a full life with a loving partner. Rather, we need to be open to all Jews. We need to accept and welcome gays into our shules and homes. Their lives and relationships concern only Hashem. If Hashem made somebody gay or lesbian that's his business. You may not be on that path but gays are and G-d is guiding them as he does every Jew. Be kind and leave it to Hashem.
Anonymous
Turku, Finland
May 5, 2012
Feelings
If we all acted on every feeling we experienced I shudder to think how the world would be!

Of course as human beings we have choices to make, we have free will, to act or not. It doesn't matter whether it's regarding homesexual feelings or feelings of rage.
Anonymous
Vancouver, Canada
April 30, 2012
Homosexuality
Everyone on this earth is here for a purpose no matter what sexual orientation you are. Gay, lesbian, and Bisexual people are God's children as well as straight people. If you as a person do the right thing, work hard, do you and what makes yourself happy and the people around you happy leave everything up to God to worry about the rest. That is my motto of life. Also, ignorance is so prevalent these days. Educating people about what its like to be gay The more aware you are, the more you can educate others about what not to say to gay people, how to accept them for who they are, and to not say things like ohh its just a phase, you can't live that way, its a choice (very ignorant message btw). Yes, in the Torah it says you cannot have relations with the same sex or marry. If you are not gay I respect that, but if you were gay how would you feel if people were judging you based on who to love? You wouldn't be happy if you had to hide who you were.
Groovy
Bloomington, Indiana
March 12, 2012
A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. As long as one abides by others' definition of what is to be in his likeness, other words heterosexual. I wish from the bottom of my heart to integrate into the Jewish community, but I remain an outsider because I am a lesbian.
A. Busovitz
Toronto, Canada
March 11, 2012
Ignores the Real Issues
I appreciate your attempt to be diplomatic, Bronya, but the real practical issues involved are swept aside by your overly gentle treatment of the issue. Yes, Jews of all kinds are welcome in the synagogue, as a rule. But what is one supposed to say when, for example, the Kiddush conversation turns to family and a congregant says he's married - to his husband? I can't imagine other congregants genuinely wanting to engage with and welcome such a person. In short, the person who asked the question deserves a bit more practical advice on how to approach the issue than the advice offered.
Yisroel
Haifa
March 8, 2012
Homosexuality as a human condition, not as an act
The homoseuxality issue is one that needs more attention in Halakhah
Michael
Bala Cynwyd, PA
December 23, 2011
Anonymous in Toronto
"if you want people to pander your lifestyle, perhaps a torah-based website was not the place for you to find it? "

You might want to consult with someone learned in the Torah, about what it means to discourage a fellow Jew from observing mitzvot,

Definition of pandering - to act as a pander; cater basely

My lifestyle includes such things as studying the Torah, Kabbalah, Chassidus, performing mitzvot, and not judging others.

It never ceases to amaze me, the lack of real understanding of what it means to strive to serve Hashem with joy & with awe, that I see on exhibition from those who hold themselves out to be "Torah observant" on the basis of them having completed a rigid education, and performing rituals rotely.
Marc Epstein
Kingston, NY
December 23, 2011
Anonymous in Queen Creek, AZ
"So why bother with it at all? Why not be an athiest? Or a buddhist? "

You might want to consult with someone learned in the Torah, about what it means to discourage a fellow Jew from observing mitzvot, or (heaven forbid) encouraging one to covert from Judaism.
Marc Epstein
Kingston, NY
December 23, 2011
Anonymous, Toronto
Lol i love people like you Anonymous from Toronto. You like judging and calling out people who disagree with this articles viewpoint which you do from behind the cloak of anonymity. Most of the people who have criticized this article have put their name up to and are not afraid to show their views. Why dont you do the same before picking a fight you know you cant win.
Akiva
JHB, South Africa
December 13, 2011
good article! i am surprised to see all the gay people here whining, though. if you want people to pander your lifestyle, perhaps a torah-based website was not the place for you to find it? obviously.
Anonymous
Toronto
November 21, 2011
bed?? like a woman, sodomy
It seems that people are accepting the interpretations of others as accurate translations of a vague and ambiguous passage.

Whoever uses "sodomy" has no basis for his translation and whoever uses "bed" likewise has no basis. Both strike me as an interpretation of the phrase which I thought (I could of course be wrong) is best translated "like a woman."

None of these translations, however, comes close to being a prohibition. At most, it is a regulation, and where there is a regulation, one may not invent a prohibition.

People who believe that every word of the Torah is literally true should pay attention to Maimonides.

"Say it aint so, Mo." Mo: "it aint so."
Anonymous
Beverly Hills, CA/USA
November 21, 2011
Anon,

Marc's comments do speak volumes. It speaks to his ability to look into things beyond just the surface level. It shows that he doesn't take the text for granted or just believe what he is told. He seems to be an educated person with a deep sense of respect for truth.

I don't believe the Torah is the word of Hashem either, but it is part of my heritage and I enjoy it as a literature rather than scripture. It tells us a lot without being divine. All you have to do is read it with a critical mind and an adult perspective. Chumash with Rashi may be enough for a 5 year old, but when we are no longer children it behooves us to read the text as adults.
Daniel Rosenberg
Baltimore, MD
November 17, 2011
Judaism 101 website
Marc:

Go look up 613 commandments, that is where I got this exact information and translation.

This is not my "own rendition".

And that you don't believe that the Torah is the word of Hashem speaks volumes. So why bother with it at all? Why not be an athiest? Or a buddhist?
Anonymous
Queen Creek, AZ
November 16, 2011
commandment 103, revisited
The Hebrew literally says: “You shall not lie with a male [on] the beds of a woman (or wife), it is a despising.”
Your leap from that to "Not to commit sodomy with a male", is your own rendition, nothing more.
That being said, the book of Vayikra, as a whole, has always been a thorn in my side. It contains many of the highly ritualistic aspects of the priesthood, and seems to be the book most likely to have been edited by members of that class. This is only my opinion. I respect those who believe that the torah, as we have it today, is the direct and unaltered word of hashem, but i don't hold that belief myself, for a number of reasons. And no, among them is not, "to justify my behavior". I am more self-aware than that.
Futhermore, your labelling of homosexuality as an "issue", indicates any real understanding of the issue at hand, sir. Hashem made us in his image, you would do well to understand that better, before delving into the technical details and language of Vayikra.
Marc Epstein
Kingston, NY
November 15, 2011
homosexuality
right on, post before mine, Torah forbids it, clear cut, it's straight forward.
Anonymous
boca ratom, fl
November 15, 2011
Commandment #103
Not to commit sodomy with a male (Lev. 18:22).

That is commandment number 103 out of the 613 commandments.

Very straight forward and easy to understand, so not sure how some on this board can justify homosexual activity and/or marriage.

Everyone has their issues that they have to overcome in this life- the key word being 'overcome'.
Anonymous
Queen Creek, AZ
October 3, 2011
wow
I have to say that Chabad is very brave at posting all these comments.
Many posters are either intentionally or unintentionally twisting the wording in Torah or other places in Tanach. The problem is that the statements against homosexual behavior in the Torah are all elaborated upon by our Sages in the Gemara & other foundational books of rabbinical Judaism. They make clear that homosexual practice is unequivocally prohibited. HaShem says it's an abomination. Also, a man is only a full man if he has a wife.
The above "pro-homosexuality" comments seem to misunderstand Orthodox Judaism. One of its definitive practices is relying on the teachings of our rabbis in a continuous tradition. You can't rewrite thousands of years of established tradition & pretend to somehow be "more righteous" than a Jew who expresses the rulings of the Sages. If you choose to ignore the teachings of these rabbis, that's your free will choice. Nevertheless, a Jew is a Jew no matter their type of yetzer hara.
Anonymous
Los Angeles, California
July 29, 2011
Acceptance
A friend told me this true story about a phone conversation that occured over a decade ago between a friend of hers & the rabbi of the local Orthodox Shul:

Rabbi: Why haven't I seen you in Shul?
Man: I'm gay, I didn't think I'd be welcome.
Rabbi: (without skipping a beat) Why haven't I seen you in Shul?

Enough said.
Anonymous
July 15, 2011
Twice Blessed
We in the Jewish and LGBT community have a saying that we are 'twice blessed'. Growing up with a strong feeling for my Judaism and an appreciation for a special extra spirit within---I believe this to be very true. A struggle? You bet. Wrestling? For sure. But that is the Jewish way to self knowledge and a closer connection to a Higher Power---and my dear chevre----believe me when I tell you---the LGBT community is blessed. The Big Wrestle comes not in 'who' we love----but 'how' we love and care for another.
Bruce Bierman
Los Angeles
July 15, 2011
Ignorance is sinful
On the other hand, ignorance strikes me as the essence of sin. There is zero factual basis for you to conclude that the Creator was anti-Gay. Thus, your conclusion is based on ignorance.

"Let's make man in our image." So you think that you know more about what the Creator wanted than the Creator?

Ms. S has never provided a single place where Torah forbids me to have sex with each other. The prohibition was invented by certain men who place their own bigotry over what the Torah says.

When people decide to change the Torah without any proof, they are acting in ignorance to harm other people. Harming other people because of one's own ignorance is sinful.
Anonymous
Beverly Hills, CA/USA
July 15, 2011
Thank you
Wow this article stirred up some strong feelings. I really want to say thank you to Chabad.org and especially Mrs. Bronya Schaffer for posting and writing this. I imagine they knew this reaction was inevitable.
It seems that many people today think that the Creator could not possibly have forbidden anything that doesn't harm another person and which some people really want. I think that life itself should be more important than our sexual urges, and I do not mean to diminish the importance and degree to which our sexuality defines us. We must realize that Righteousness and Judgement belong to the Creator, and if we cannot fathom it, we must still have faith. I believe that is the foundation necessary to fulfill our purpose here
Kyle
Austin, TX
July 10, 2011
I'd chose if I could
Dear Garth,

I'd chose to be Gay, just I would chose to be Jewish.

I believe that my being Gay and my being Jewish are the same as winning the Mega Lotto twice on the same day. Who wouldn't chose to win the Mega Lotto?

What I would not like would be to be born a homophobe or an anti-Semite, and I certainly I would not chose to be either. I think the question is whether Ms. S was born prejudiced or whether she chose to be a bigot. Religiosity does not vitiate bigotry.
Rick Abrams
Beverly Hills, CA/USA
July 7, 2011
Homosexuality
Dear Ma'am

I read your comments with sadness that comes when a pressing issue such as homosexulaity/human sexuality is dealt with in such a superficial way when for so many of us it is a matter of Life and Death.

My I respectfull suggest you acquaint yourself with the writings of Rabbi Greenberg and others. Homosexuality is not a feeling nor a choice: it is who we are. No sane person chooses to live the life of an "outcast" or to become a de facto genetic cul-de-sac.

I am happy to chat further....

Shalom,
Garth Petzer
Portsmouth, UK
July 4, 2011
Ms. Shaffer is wrong
Many times over the years, Ms. Shaffer has been asked where the Torah expressly forbids men not to have with each other. Neither Ms. Shaffer nor anyone else has cited where the Torah has such a commandment.

When the Torah has only a regulation of an activity, the Torah does not prohibit the entire conduct. By logic the general activity is permitted provided it does not violate the regulation.

There is no Prohibition on men having sex with each other and anyone who believes such a prohibition exists believes that there are 614 Commandments.

We do find that some modern Jews will mis-translate portions of the Torah to satisfy their personal beliefs. Deut 23:18 which is in strick parallel form refers to female and male harlots, but the phrase is often falsely translated as female harlot and sodomite.

KDSH MBNIT which means female harlot requires that KDSH MBNI be translated male harlot.
Anonymous
July 1, 2011
Question
Broyna states, 'Jewish law unconditionally prohibits the homosexual act.' But there are many ways that a man can show love for another man both physically and through loving acts of kindness. Does Torah also prohibit these as well? If so, where does it say so?
Bruce
Los Angeles, CA
June 30, 2011
Some questions
Ms Shaffer opens her article explaining how feelings are something we all feel, but don't have to act on---especially when they are 'immoral'. Is sexual desire a 'feeling' or a part of our biological nature? Can a heterosexual change his feelings to be attracted to someone of the same sex? And aren't words that judge and criticize others considered to be the sin of all sins--- loshen hara? Especially when Torah NEVER judges the love between two men---but rather cautions to keep their union holy. Just as Torah cautions the family man to keep his relationships holy and pure by not committing adultery or incest. Is it not the height of chutzpah to judge the mysterious creations of Hashem---beyond one simple satute that does not include the entirety of what it is to be a man who loves another man?
Baruch Cohen
Berkeley, CA
June 27, 2011
@Daniel
I agree with you. and its not mincing words - i've learned that everything, down to the spacing, can be important in interpreting Torah. in a way it brings to mind the ambiguous wording of the 2nd amendment to the u.s. constitution. where one pauses in reading it decides whether militia is the intended context of the right to bear arms. in that particular case, i think the framers used deliberately conflicting wording, perhaps in hope of a future where guns might not be such an omnipresent part of everyday life?
Marc Epstein
Kingston, NY
June 27, 2011
Lie with a man as with a woman
I agree 100% with Marc Epstein.

The phrase makes sense when interpreted with our dislike/fear of men dressing like women. Other ancient peoples had effeminate male prostitutes who cross-dressed in their temples. We forbid that. The word to describe them has the root KDSH denoting that such prostitutes, male and female, were once considered holy by someone.

Times changed and as we all know, in those times WEAKNESS was a danger to others. Men behaving like women were mistakenly assumed to be weak. This may have begun with the Romans. Julius Caesar was joked at behind his back as he was a "bottom."

Those of us whom believe that we should neither add nor subtract a word from the Torah should realize that "like a woman" may not be ignored. If the Torah forbid men with men, these words would not be present. Thus, at most the phrase is a regulation about how men may not behave when having sex with each other.
Rick Abrams
Beverly Hills, CA
June 27, 2011
Where is it written.......?
I know what the Torah says about the act of penetration. But Is it written anywhere in the Torah that men are forbidden to love one another? Embrace? Kiss? Give sensual pleasure and happiness to each other? Live with each other? Become partners? Is it written anywhere that a man can't cook and clean, dance with another man, make beautiful things for others to enjoy? Is it written anywhere that a man who loves other men can't have a woman as a good friend and act as a bridge at times between the strained relations between men and women? Is this written anywhere? If so, where?
Baruch Cohen
Berkeley, CA
June 27, 2011
@Marc
it's a tough commandment to understand, at least to me. all the other commandments preceding it don't say "as if with your wife" or "as if with a woman". the coda on the end of that commandment "as if with a woman", i don't know what the purpose in that is. every word in the torah means something. could it possibly be a commandment against lying BOTH with a man and a woman?

i'm not trying to mince words here, really. it is mentioned once in the entire torah— the only other reference to sodomy is in beresheit (genesis) where the sodomites were trying to rape the angels in lot's house, which to me seems more about them being angels and rape rather than them being men.
daniel
atlanta, ga
June 25, 2011
What does the Torah really say?
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22)

Well, I don't lie with a male as with a woman. I lie with a male as with a male! I know the difference between male and female, after all. So there is NO prohibition of homosexuality. Very simple. Thank you.
Marc Epstein
Kingston, NY
May 9, 2011
Homosexuality is here to stay and has been,is and will always be. You cannot deny someone who is gay the right to express it. It is tantamount to saying to a bird that you can be a bird but cannot fly.
antonio sabella
providence, r.i.
February 11, 2011
Forbidden acts - are they really ALL the same?
The message to Jewish gays & lesbians is, in essence, that it's ok to have gay feelings but a sin to act on them.

There must be, has to be a way the community can come to an understanding that it's inappropriate to compare romantic feelings, within the context of a mongamous, loving and committed relationship, to other kinds of urges people have to do things that are forbidden.

How is it reasonable to say "I want to jump on my aunt's couch but I must not" and compare that to "I want to love and be loved in a committed, monogamous relationship but I must not?"

At some point we have to start using the reasoning capability G-d has given us.

If Torah forbade people to display green eyes in public, what do we do with all the people born with green eyes? It is very easy for people NOT born with green eyes to say "it's ok to have them, but youll just have to wear dark glasses your entire life." G-d cannot be that unreasonable. It should be a sin to assume He would be.
Thomas Houck
San Diego, CA
December 6, 2010
Dear Judy from Feb 8, 2010 re reincarnation
Dear Judy,

You have been mislead. No doubt the rabbi was straight and thus he gave you false and misleading ideas. His idea that men who prefer men do so because they were clinging to some prior life habit of liking men as they had been women is simply foolishness.

Rabbis are human and they are prone to the same errors as other people. Authority leaders often presume that they know about things where they are very ignorant. We Jews recognize this phenomenon when he hear about Catholic priests advising people about sex.

The same applies to rabbis inventing silliness about Gays. Unless they are Gay, they are ignorant about the subject matter. A wise rabbi would admit that he does not know how Gay people feel.

The greatest inclination that Bryona herself should over come is pontificating upon matters about which she knows nothing.

Being Gay, I find the rabbi's rendition about reincarnation and Gays to be nonsense. The Wise Men of Chelm would know better.
Scott Zwartz
Beverly Hills, CA/USA
December 6, 2010
Religosity does not excuse bigotry
Many people believe that if they pretend that they are doing G-d's will in being bigots, that they are holy men. They are mistaken. One may not add to the Torah, and nowhere does the Torah say that a man may not be Gay or engage in Gay sex..

The reference to men not having sex with each other like with a woman is enigmatic at best. It is physically impossible for two men to have sex as a man has with a woman. It is unlikely the prohibition was implying that anal sex was the normal way to have sex with a woman. It is highly likely that it was a prohibition against men cross-dressing, but no one knows for sure.

If we assume anal sex was forbidden, that does not outlaw Gay Sex as most Gay Sex is not anal. No where does the Torah forbid homosexuality, and those who pretend that it does are adding to the Torah ideas which it does not contain. What we face is men substituting their bigotry for G-d's word.
Scott Zwartz
Beverly Hills, CA/USA
December 5, 2010
Yartziet for 'Craig'
'Craig' was the poster child of the Feminine Boy Project conducted at U.C.L.A. in the early 70's. The aim of the team of psychiatrists was to reverse the true nature of some 63 young feminine acting boys who did not conform to gender assigned roles and to make them act more masculine and turn them away from how they really felt inside. They considered 'Craig' a successful patient who became 'straight'. 'Craig' recently commited suicide---no doubt related to living a lie and assimilating to what main stream society thought he should be. On this 5th night of Chanukkah, I will light my candle for 'Craig' blessed memory, against intolerance, and to stand up against assimilation---even though it might be the 'norm'----just as the Maccabees refused to assimilate into the popular Greek culture of the time.
Bruce
Berkeley, CA
December 5, 2010
WITHHOLDING DONATIONS FROM CHABAD
My experience of Chabad of Scottsdale, Az., is one of unconditional love and respect. Any Jewish person can contact Chabad of Scottsdale of any reason, and find warmth and acceptance...without judgment.

My love for the Lubuvitch way of life and spiritual guidance is not predicated on whether they agree with my philosophies. It just is.
Anonymous
Scottsdale, Arizona
December 5, 2010
Homosexuality
I study and admire Jewish customs. I spell G-d your way in respect. G-d does not accept homosexuality. He never has, nor will He ever. It is alien to Him.

Even the lower animals behave as G-d wishes. Should not those created in His image do so also? For man to lie with man, or woman with woman is an abomination before Almighty G-d.

We as mere humans cannot judge these matters.

We can know how G-d judges them by reading the Torah.

Do not do this thing called homosexuality. Should you die before discontinuing this awful practice, I do not know what happens then? Can someone tell me? I believe the person is GONE. Just Gone.
Asking is learning. Therefore I ask these things?
Ms. D.G. (Debra Gail) Palmer
December 4, 2010
Disagree
I wholeheartedly disagree with this approach, but the fact that I can disagree is what makes Judaism different from most other religions— we can question our faith, the law, all have different opinions on different issues and G-d will never cast us out, and neither will a synagogue (besides the most conservative).

To whomever said, "This is between G-d and him... He is aware of his rebellion. G-d does not forgive rebellion. Look it up!!", I find that extremely foolish. We rebel against G-d in every way possible every single day; you have many problems of your own, as we all do.

When it comes to homosexuality, it wasn't an issue at the time the commandment was given. What was an issue were pagans who would invade towns and rape the men— see Sodom and Gomorrah. Note the commandment at the end of the Noachide Code— "Do not punish by these commandments". We have to read context. When a man loves a man, a gay relationship is OK, BUT like any hetero relationship, marriage is required.
Daniel
Alpharetta, GA
August 27, 2010
GAY JEWS?
My brother is gay and he knows its wrong to be gay. Torah states it. The torah is straight up, G-d forbids. You don't do it. No justification..nothing... My brother doesn't associate himself with us. He tells us, This is between G-d and him. When he's ready to change then he'll change. He is aware of his rebellion. G-d does not forgive rebellion. Look it up!!
Don
bakersfield, ca
July 20, 2010
How wrong can Chabad be? Very, very wrong.
My nephew, a devoted Jewish young man, lives in an area in Tacoma, Washington, where Chabad arrived a few years ago. He was bar mitsvah at the reform shul, but has made his family become kosher, and the family has brought the Chabad rabbi, his wife, and children, into their home, time and time again. Fourth of July, birthdays, and weekly study of Talmud and Torah. This year, he "came out," something not a mystery to those of us in the family, because we could see and sense his sexuality ever since he began to socialize and be around other children, and certainly as he "came of age." To deny him a partner some day who would share his life, and the act of love, is hateful, and a distinct misinterpretation of Jewish law, and common sense. I have been a donor to Chabad in the past, and must now withhold my contributions until I have spoken with my brother and nephew's Chabad rabbi, to see if he would call my nephew's homosexual acts a sin, and make this young man hate himself.
Etienne Boloz-Becquer
Pahoa, HI
May 30, 2010
Daniel
Hi Daniel

Thank you very much for pointing that out to me. when i wrote that post i was trying to make a point and in the end it seemed i made two. I assure you that i in no way am i trying to say that two gay people living together should not have a loving caring and also sexual relationship in every way.

The point i was trying to make back there was that even the strictest of opinions cannot do anything as far as the Torah goes but say that anal sex is forbidden. The rest of the nonsense that is spouted is just pure ignorance and homophobia. In my opinion the Rabbis weren't even talking about gay sex over there. But that is a whole other discussion by itself.
Akiva
May 28, 2010
How Not to Behave like a Woman
I have yet to see someone provide the historical context for the prohibition that men who have sex with each other not behave like a woman. Most people who think realize that the verse is not a prohibition on men having sex with each other, but a regulation on the type of sex.

I am not convinced that "like a woman" refers to anal sex. That interpretation assumes heterosexual intercourse is anal intercourse and that is not logical.

I tend to suspect that the regulation not to behave like a woman has to do with effeminacy and/or cross dressing, both of which were seen as signs of weakness.

Weakness is a threat to society and from my experience, men who fear that they are Gay actually fear that they are weak. When that myth is dispelled, they can exit The Closet.

Is it OK to have regs on Gay sex? Why not? There's a world more to being Gay than having anal sex; few Gays cross dress during sex. With over 2,000 partners, < 1% insisted on anal sex and 0% cross dressed.
Scott Zwartz
Beverly Hills, CA/USA
May 28, 2010
Akiva
How can you expect a gay couple to live together in a commited relationship yet not perform that act which is forbidden? Wouldn't you be denying the basic urges of people in these relationships? It's like telling two hetero people who are married and living together that you can do anything, no problem, just no intercourse (the regular kind). Do you honestly think this is practical and/or healthy? Is this what you practice in your relationship? How can you expect others to be able to behave the same way?
Daniel
Baltimore, MD
February 9, 2010
reincarnation
Hi Judy

I appreciate your comment as i see you tried to keep a fair and balanced approach in it. I just want to make one point on what you said. The Torah doesn't say anything about overcoming your homosexual inclinations. The only thing it refers to in the chumash is that one must not have anal sex with another man. However if you look at heterosexual relationships there are also restrictions there such as nida. So a homosexual relationship is fine so long as one doesn't perform the actual act of sex. I don't know if this clarify s anything but it is a strong part of what i believe.
Akiva
Johannesburg
February 8, 2010
reincarnation
i took a chabad course in reincarnation, The Rabbi said we have had many lives and each life is a learning process and test, after you die, if you merit it, your soul will make a good Aliyah into the next world and be on a high level. Most people have been reincarnated more than 20 times, Some have always been men and others always women. when these people come into a male or female body, they have never experieced that before in their lifetimes, since they were always male or female, This time G-d wants them to experience the other sex, Alot of these people are gay and have an attraction to the same sex because that is what they were used to. they were put here on earth as a test to explore the other sex and see that point of view, If you believe the Torah is from G-d, then Homosexuality is forbidden, Like broyna says, G-d is testing you to overcome your natural inclinations , Most say it's impossible, but if G-d says so, it can't be
judy
coconut creek, fl
December 26, 2009
Isn't it all about love?
As Hillel said “What is hateful to thyself do not do to another. That is the whole Law, the rest is Commentary.”
Dr. Avigayil Glasson
December 9, 2009
Interesting
I find this article very interesting. Though, as a lesbian Jew, I find it also very confusing. At some parts I smiled, at others, I grew angry. If there is no room in Jewish law to marry same-sex couples, how is it then that we should ever find a place in the religion?

I did not act on ANY sexual tendancies until I was married. However, according to both religious and secular law, I am not married. I have had my one partner and her alone. I went through the marriage ceremony, though of course, not the blessing or license itself.

So, again, still confused.
Lesbian Jew
Alexandria, VA
December 1, 2009
Anonymous, Chicago, IL
Dear Mr Anonymous

Just so you know as a gay Jew I have checked out jonahweb.org. I have also been to one of their affiliated programs in Israel for over a year. At that time i so badly wanted to change i would've given anything to be able to do so. After a year of intense therapy and group sessions the only result was coming very close to committing suicide. I would just like to ask you Anonymous how you could dare to promote an organization purely because they say they can change homosexuality. The entire American Psychological Association (APA) says that the therapy that Jonah uses is at best useless and at worst highly damaging. There are entire websites with people who have been through Jonah and their likes programs and come out of them very damaged - see www.exgaywatch.com. As a gay Jew who has been through the trenches i find your instant judgment of us obscene and disgusting.
Akiva
Johannesburg, South Africa
December 1, 2009
Jonah Smonah
Who cares why anyone is Gay? Why change? I love being Gay! Gay is Good. Gay is wonderful!!!

I wouldn't change if I could, and if it is a choice, it's the best choice I've ever made. I'd chose to be Gay any time.

Remember the three G's: Gay,Good and G-d!!!
Rick Aabrams
Bev Hills, CA
November 30, 2009
Rick
Check out jonahweb.org
everything is explained there. No one is born gay. And no one chooses to be gay. Its something that develops by not having all your needs (physical, emotional etc.) fulfilled growing up. and it can be dealt with!
Anonymous
Chicago, IL
November 29, 2009
To chnage or not to change
Since Anonymous Chicago believes that people do not chose to be Gay, then G-d must have made the Gay person Gay. Where does Torah command Gay people to change and to what are they supposed to change and why?
Rick Abrams
Bev Hills, CA
November 28, 2009
Change is possible!
Everything Torah commands us to do or not to do G-d gives us the power for it.
True people don't chose to be homosexual, but every one has the power to change!
check out jonahweb.org
Anonymous
Chicago, IL
August 10, 2009
"It's a Mitzvah......
Another great Jewish Queer man once said, "It's Mitzvah to always be in a gay mood" ----Rabbi Nachman of Bratslav
Nu? Nachman of Bratslav gay?! Check out his biography. This troubled Tzadik struggled his whole life with fighting his true nature. Could this be why he died so young? There is music, beauty and G-d everywhere in everything----someday, Rabbi Nachman, when people stop judging others, they will have time to see the mysterious beauty in all things---whether they understand it or not.
Dov
Jerusalem, Israel
August 9, 2009
Gays into recruiting Straights, Get real!
People who think that Gays recruit Straights are either ignorant and/or expressing their own inner desires.

Gay people know recruitment cannot alter sexual orientation.

Some people are Gay -- even if they refuse to admit it to themselves. Their lives are psychological torment which they often express through becoming anti-Gay and becoming Gay Bashers. Paranoia is usually caused by one's being in the closet as to his own Gay feelings.

Closeted Gays do not realize that the Closet has glass walls and Gays can see what you're doing. You may fool yourself and Straights, but we've been there done that. We know the tricks, the lies, the deceits to "prove" that we're Straight. "There's nothing new under the sun."

Fear of recruitment usually means a desire to be recruited. Chances are it won't happen. There are too many sane Gays for us to entangle ourselves with closet cases. Your closet door will open only from the inside.
Rick Abrams
Bev Hills, Calif
August 6, 2009
A GREAT JEWISH GAY MAN
What would the world have been without this Twice Blessed artist?!

"The key to the mystery of a great artist is that for reasons unknown, he will give away his energies and his life just to make sure that one note follows another... and leaves us with the feeling that something is right in the world."
-----Leonard Bernstein
Dov
Jerusalem, Israel
August 6, 2009
homosexuals should never have children
I am sorry but here again you prove that those who don't agree that homsexualilty is normal are being treated as backward bigots. Don't you think, the wisdom of thousands of years is important? Homosexulity is homocentric. It is love of itself. It is male in love with male, female in love with female. Even though love is genderless, having children changes it. The main reason families were instituted with a male and female were to fill the earth with human beings. DUH!! Tolerating your group is one thing, but accepting and telling our children its OK to be GAY is another. Your sexual orientation should not interfere with anything else you do in life. When you choose to tell all you are gay and then expect others to still have the same opinon of you, you are kidding yourselves. Sexual orientation is a very private and sacred thing. Since gays can't have children naturally, that should not be part of their lifestyle. One more thing, most gays are very into recruiting straights.
New York
August 6, 2009
A Word on Slavery
Although slavery existed in ancient Israel, Biblical Judaism neither condoned nor encouraged it. Deuteronomy considered slaves as members of the master's family. Slaves were included in festival celebrations and given gifts. Exodus stipulates that slaves are never to be treated in a brutal manner. Slaves participated in the religious life of the family and rested on the Sabbath. Slave markets never existed in Israel, and kidnapping a man or selling him as a slave was a capital offense. According to the Talmud (Kiddushin 20a), a slave was to be regarded as his master's equal.

Clearly, the Torah was not in favor of slavery.
Paul
Los Angeles, CA
August 6, 2009
Anonymous' Staw Man Argument
Attacking a straw man argument is easier than dealing with reality.

Anonymous asserts that "whenever someone expresses their feelings towards the homosexual community with anything other than complete love and acceptance, they are labled as nazis, bigoted, stupid, hateful, etc."

People compare the Jewhaters and Gayhaters with Nazis, etc. because they have the same thought patterns as Nazis. The comparison is applied to haters, not to people who do not love Gays.

BS and her associates exhibit Nazi thought patterns. They start with lies to exclude a group; they justify their lies by the mistaken belief that religiously inspired bigotry isn't prejudice; they advocate limited rights for the excluded group, and the more violent take murder Jews and Gays.

Right wing Jews, like Chabad, vilify Gays in the same way the pre-WW II Nazis vilified Jews. We saw the same pattern w/ Yidal Amir. Of all peoples, we Jews know that bigotry ends in murder.
Rick Abrams
Bev Hills, Calif
August 6, 2009
Changing from Gay to Straight
It is time to grow up intellectually - and morally - and recognize that the Bible is a human and historical document, that reflects the attitudes and world-view of its time. We no longer accept its toleration of slavery; so we should liberate ourselves from its attitude toward homosexuality.
Note that the American Psychological Association today issued a report casting grave doubt on all the propaganda, religious and otherwise, that gays and lesbians can be "changed" by external intervention, and that such intervention often does grave harm to its subjects.
If Chabad stands for such "absolute values" and "absolute law" as Bronya suggests, then Chabad should be rejected as intellectually bankrupt and morally retrograde.
Edward Segel
Portland, OR
August 4, 2009
Fit in? And HOW!
Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Jews and allies are our relatives, friends, neighbors, and co-workers. LGBT and allied Jews span the denominational and political spectrums. The Jewish communal world is full of LGBT and allied educators, cantors, rabbis, social workers, activists, and synagogue members. All too often LGBT Jews “assimilate” and hide their identities in order to participate in the Jewish world or “separate” and distance themselves from Jewish life, representing a collective loss in terms of the strength and vibrancy of the community. Many in the Jewish world are ready to redefine the boundaries of the community to include Jews of diverse sexual orientations and gender identities. Jewish Mosaic’s work is to contribute to and build on that momentum and to foster a process of transformative integration. LGBT Jews should not have to choose between their sexual and religious identities; we can transform Jewish institutions to accommodate all forms of Jewish difference
Dov
Jerusalem, Israel
August 4, 2009
homosexuals are handicapped people
Unfortunately, whenever someone expresses their feelings towards the homosexual community with anything other than complete love and acceptance, they are labled as nazis, bigoted, stupid, hateful, etc, etc. What the gays don't seem to understand, most of the straight community except for the less than one percent who hate everyone who isn't them, think of the gays as a group of people who are extremely egocentric, and handicapped in the sense that they are mentally and physically different from the norm. We don't have to like you but we do have to tolerate your group. Liking and tolerating are two completely different concepts. Tolerating your group involves not hurting, inclusion, etc. same as we would treat a blind, and physically disabled person. Its not a personal thing, its a polite thing. Liking, loving, accepting your inability to have children normally, isn't required. Just grow up, life is tough. Assuming you all know that, could it be you all have a hidden agenda!
Anonymous
August 3, 2009
Mr. Daniel Roseberg Blames the victim
We are all familiar with who perfected the Blame the Victim propaganda.

If he does not understand the hostility of people who are being set up as targets of hate, Mr. Rosenberg need not go back to 1930's Germany to gain understanding. He can see the results of Broyna's lies and Hate Monger by looking at Tel Aviv of a few days ago. Not only are two Israeli teens dead, but Bronya and her ilk have brought great shame on all Jews by their incessant hate mongering.

Kind words did not dissuade any of the murderers of the Jewish People in the past and they won't dissuade Bronya in the present.
Rick Abrams
Bev Hills, CA
August 3, 2009
Response to
Dear Mr Rosenberg.

I love the fact that you see no wrong in calling a homosexual wrong or perverted since your view is so "obvously" supported by the Torah. The only thing we know for sure that the Torah prohibits is the actual act of anal sex itself. The rest is all up in the air.

If i came on this site and wrote an article in concise, logical and polite terms why G-d hates all the Jews and that Jews were going to hell, without any name calling, how many people would post comments calling me the most insulting names imaginable.

So please don't be all high and mighty and ask why gay people are not more polite. If something that was so integral to your life was under attack then you would become very vicious as well. Please try to understand and respect what a gay orthodox Jew has to go through in order to keep to his beliefs and try to be the best Jew possible.
Akiva
Johannesburg, S.A.
August 2, 2009
Why so Vicious?
After reading through these posts and other conversations I have had with gays over the internet, I just don't understand why homosexuals have to be so nasty and vicious in their responses to Bronya and others who share her opinions. Maybe the reason for their "ignorance" is due to the fact that whenever their opinions are expressed they are screamed at. How many people do you know change their opinions after name calling. It is childish and indicates that your arguments have no validity.

That said I have no idea what homosexuals go through since I am straight, but it isn't bigotry to state that "this is what Judaism says, but you should still treat those who go against it with respect." The Torah verse Lev 18:22 seems exceedingly clear that male to male Homosexuality is forbidden. Now there are alternative explanations but if one opens the book and reads it and understands it to mean that homosexuality is forbidden you can't turn around and call that person ignorant for doing so.
Mr. Daniel Rosenberg
July 26, 2009
Leviticus 18:22
Lev 18:22 is not a ban on male Gay Sex. It is a regulation on how men may have sex.

At the time this verse came about, male Gay sex was either Very Good or Very Bad depending on how the men had sex. Men who behaved like women, i.e. weak, effeminate, cross dressers, where seen as a threat to society's survival. Men who were vigorous and forthright in the male sexual encounters were seen as exceptional leaders.

Gilgamesh and Enkidu exhibited this value of male strength and the story of Jacob and the El recapitulates Gilgamesh in explaining why Jacob merited his name change to Isra-el. Alexander The Great exhibited the same trait as Gilgamesh and as David and Jonathan. Julius Caeser, who was reputed to be a bottom, however, was ridiculed due to the fear that he was too effeminate in his sexual relations. (Lev may be aimed at cross dressing and effeminacy.)

Thus, in regulating sex between males, Lev 18:22 chastised men who acted like women. It did not ban Gay sex.
Rick Abrams
Bev Hills , Calif
July 26, 2009
Calm down, homophobes & homosexuals
Bronya is missing the point. FAR from the ban on man-to-man relations mentioned in Leviticus (Vayikra), which happens to be my Bar Mitzvah parasha (and this knocks out Rick Abrams from Beverly Hills' comment comparing Bronya to Nazis, but he IS right, she should have CITED HER SOURCE), is what Bronya COMPLETELY IGNORES: being homosexual, there are many things you can do before intercourse. There has been massive justifications in light of such things as David and Jonathan's overly-emphasized love, no outright ban on man-to-man love, etc. Bronya's focus on the intercourse has made her answer almost totally useless. Someone has to come out (no pun intended) and thoroughly examine the red lines in Judaism in regard to homosexuality. Also, Bronya's comparison to eating on Yom Kippur is probably the worst comparison I've ever read in my entire life. It seems to me like Bronya hit around the bush and equivocated her way out of this one, like all the other similar questions.
Anonymous
Third, Diaspora
July 22, 2009
Gays and the Torah
BS tells outright lies -- the same lies that Nazis told about Gays are the lies that BS tells about Gays.

The Torah has no ban on gays or on gay sex. BS has been repeatedly challenged to point to that portion of the Torah that supports her position and she has never found one.

Ignorance is a terrible thing, but BS is far beyond ignorant. Nazis who said Jews and Gays were inferior did not make an innocent mistake, but instead they were vile perpetrators of hate which lead to the genocide. For a Jewish person to push the same lies against Gays is a horrendous insult to the 6 Million Jews who were murdered due to such bigotry.
Rick Abrams
Beverly Hills, CA
July 21, 2009
gays
I think the answer is absolutely correct. The act of homosexual sex can lead no where but sorrow. You can't have children by normal means, and when you fall in love with the same sex it is like falling in love with yourself, much like narcissus. The inability to stop your behaviour is your weakness and you should be working on it daily. We all have weaknesses and in order to be happy in this life we have to seek balance. If it is forbidden to have gay sex, then blaming others for their laws makes no sense. Why choose to follow laws like stopping at red lights too? Why not kill your neighbor and take whatever you want from his house? Some laws are easy to understand, but some laws that are more layered in their meanings need to also be obeyed if you want to have a good life on earth.
Anonymous
July 2, 2009
Happy PRIDE month to all you beautiful fabulous twice blessed Jewish queers out there. Keep standing up for who you are and love---davka--despite the ignorance and bigotry you may encounter. Your strength and resiliance, spit and chutzpah are a constant source of inspiriation to me! Leave it to others to rationalize and try to explain G-d's great mysteries. You, and all of us were made perfect in G-d's image. L'chaim!!
Dov
Jerusalem, Israel
July 2, 2009
Being gay is about more than just sex
As a gay Jew, I am highly disappointed in this article. In typical fundamentalist fashion, we are compared to children doing something bad or to philanderers. I agree with Dov's post. This was not and is not my choice. Maybe to some it is, and those people are called "bisexual" and they have their own set of challenges. But perhaps only those of us who are gay or who know someone who is gay can understand the incredible sense of alienation we feel. One of the things I most appreciate about being Jewish is that our tradition is one of accepting the latest science. We helped create modern psychology and pyschotherapy. The people that authored the Scriptures could not fathom the idea of truly loving someone else of the same gender with one's whole heart. To them it was just about sex and obedience. Now we understand that some people do not bond with those of the opposite sex emotionally, erotically or psychologically. We are not disobedient, just people who deserve acceptance.
Nigel
Raleigh, NC
April 23, 2009
Do Homosexuals Fit into the Jewish Community? Of course they do. ALL Jews fit into, should be fully welcome into our community, without judgement.
Henry
Silver Spring, Maryland
April 23, 2009
Absolutes
Bronya writes:
And that moral compass is comprised of myriad components, but must be firmly grounded, always, in a system of absolutes. Absolute law. Absolute values. Torah.

That is so simplistic as to be positively alarming. Life is far more complicated than that. Do we in fact endorse Torah provisions for stoning, etc.? And treat *all* the 613 commandments as "absolute law"? In fact the Bible is a historical document, reflecting the views and atittudes of its time. Relying on so-called "absolutes" is in fact an abdication of individual judgment, individual moral responsibility, an escape from the dilemmas of being human. I prefer to live my life outside of the prison of such so-called "absolutes."
Edward Segel
Portland, OR
April 20, 2009
I am Jewish and gay. I have personally known many individuals from the, LGBT community for nearly 45 years. I can say with some confidence that I am an expert on the subject and have done thorough research.. Let me say this as clear as I can. It is not a choice and because it is not a choice and is G-d gifted, it is not meant to be denied or suppressed. Serious damage can be caused by suggesting that sexual orientation can be denied. Too many suicides have inccured because of it. With so many millions of GLBT individuals in every corner of the planet---is it not blasphemous to imply that G-d made a mistake? It may not be the 'norm'---but Jews have never been in the norm either. L
Dov
Jerusalem, Israel
April 7, 2009
Homosexuality
G-d creates us in his image. Why would G-d create a jewish soul that is born gay (it is not a choice anymore than heterosexuaity is a choice) and then prohibit what has been created, a gay person. This paradox is troubling. Is there no learned soul who has an answer to this dillemma?
Herschel ben Baruch
Tamarac, FL
March 16, 2009
BRONYA: "While firmly closing the door on the act, often WE find that when WE consistently redirect these emotions ... the emotions are slowly tempered and change." (emphasis added)
HENRY: What do you mean "We"? Are you saying that you were homosexual but by consistently redirecting your emotions you became heterosexual? Bronya, there is NO -- zero -- scientific evidence that a person can change his sexual orientation. Gays can lie, hide, live in the closet. And many do, for obvious reasons. But no one has ever really changed.
BRONYA: "A person feels what a person feels. Then he has the power to decide whether he will act upon those feelings or not."
HENRY: Bronya, I fully agree. You are prejudiced against homosexuals. But you have the power to decide not to act on those feelings, and welcome all Jews, without judgment into our community.
HENRY
silver spring, MD
January 15, 2009
If we love G-d we will obey
In every relationship there are expectations on both parties, for example a married man is expected to put the toilet seat down, and he does it because he loves his wife and wants a peaceful and loving relationship. Not doing so, shows he is more concerned about himself and may infact not love his wife. In the same way our relationship with G-d is based on set of princilples and guidelines(laws) that are for our benefit. In not obeying this show that we are selfish, self willed, and not concerned about the things of G-d or cultivating a relationship. This is true for any and all sin, beit homosexuality or otherwise. Sinning say I don't love you, I don't care and I want to do what I want to do. Now a loving husband if he made the mistake of leaving the seat up, as does happen some times, will seek forgiveness and say to his wife honey, I messed up, please forgive me I'll try to do better. Likewise when we fail we should try to do better, for love overcomes a multitide of sin.
gnl
December 22, 2008
BS Not rooted in Jewish law
BS's opinions are not rooted in Judaic Law. They are based on ignorance and parallel the Xian Thumpers re-interpretation of Torah.

Because her opinions are not based in Torah, neither BS nor you identified the so-called "homosexual act" or where that act is prohibited in the Torah.

Her ignorant prejudices, which are accepted by Chabbad, psychologically harm thousands of Jews, some who commit suicide as a result. Driving Jewish teens to commit suicide does not strike me as following the Yetzer haTov.
Scott
Bev Hills, CA
December 15, 2008
Objection
Scott, Bronya's article is rooted in Judaic law. As far as Judaism is concerned, it is very accurate. You may not agree with the Torah, or any of Judaism's precepts for that matter, but personally attacking Bronya by claiming she is "spreading fear and loathing through lies," when in fact she is spreading Judaism, will get you nowhere. Your suggestion that Bronya doesn't care about teenagers committing suicide is particularly vicious and is highly inappropriate for this discussion.
Paul
Los Angeles, CA
December 12, 2008
Since when is ignorance a Jewish value?
Bronya now knows that her opinions are based on her ignorance, yet she conceals that fact from the readers. What morality is there in spreading fear and loathing through lies?

There is no homosexual act as Bronya pretends. Bronya does not care about the mental torment and suicides which her ignorant prejudices bring about. From what one can tell from her writing, she is only interested in aggrandizing her personal position, and if a few dozen teenagers offing themselves -- what's that compared to her personal status? Nothing!
Scott
Bev Hills, CA
December 11, 2008
It remains a sin
God did create us all indeed, and he also set forth certain laws, even the laws of nature, that is why even with the ever growing percentage of Gays, there are more heterosexuals in the world, and a man and a woman are only allowed to create a child. That is just what nature dictates.

It is up to us to obey God's laws or not obey them, we cannot skirt around them, no matter how natural they feel. In this society where anything goes, where people dont blink an eye at premarital sex or lewdness, people lie, slander and hurt each other for economic reasons, look at this society, ( american) and tell me we have not suffered for that.

We can call anyone we want bigoted if they speak out against homosexuality, but homosexuality is a great sin, yes im sorry but it is. in every religion and every culture, although it exists in every religion and every culture, it remains a sin, just as adultery, pedophlia and bestiality may occur worldwide, they are sins.
Verona
new york, new york
November 13, 2008
She's right!
Bronya, you are right and I thank you. And I can say that as a straight female committed to G-d's ways, and committed to having no physical contact with the man I love because we will never marry. I'm sad, but my life is all about G-d, not sexual relationships. I can still live freely and joyfully. If you cannot be happy without such illicit intimacy, you should question your heart "why?" Living and loving is about loving and serving G-d, not our flesh and desires. Shalom!
seasaint7
Morristown, NJ
September 28, 2008
G-d created us all.
Bronya , you seem very limited. Homosexuality is a biological urge for a certain percentage of the population. No one asks to be gay. No one asks to be straight. It is G-d's will to create us in certain ways. When we try to fight who we are, we end up miserable.
Anonymous
Montclair, New Jersey
September 18, 2008
Homosexuality
Well Broyna it is so nice to hear the "unbiased" opinion of a straight Chabad woman. Excuse me if my words are dripping with sarcasm but you evidently have no idea what its like to be gay. How do you even start to compare a straight person loving someone who they are not married to, to a gay relationship. At least in the former that person can touch, hold, feel and kiss their partner. But if you are gay you cannot have contact whatsoever with a partner. You are banished to being single for the rest of your life. Do you have any idea how painful that is? Our sages say that Gehinom (Hell) is the feeling of being so alone that you just want to die (again). Maybe there is a way to fit being homosexual with the Torah and maybe there isn't but don't you dare presume to declare your Judgment on people whom you cant even conceive of what they are going through.
Anonymous
July 16, 2008
loving someone doesnt mean you have to be physical with them. there are some people whom i love very dearly outside of my family; i am unable to touch them, and yet they feel that love just as strongly, if not more so, than those who i AM able to hug or kiss. so to it can be with homosexuality. the man(or woman) is unable to touch the opposite sex, but so too should they refrain from touching the same sex if they are attracted to them in the same way(because even a casual hug or hand shake is intimate, which is why we dont do it with the opposite sex in the first place). its been mentioned that you cant necessarily control your urges, feelings, or desires, but you CAN control your actions. in the end, loving from afar is no more enjoyable for an already married woman/man, than it is for a homosexual man/woman, but to be moral and to comply with G-d's will, neither can do anything about it.
batyah
July 7, 2008
This seems nice, but I have seen something else -
So I have an Hasidic pal who is gay. He fought it for most of his years. Tried everything - and right in the heart of Boro Park. He hates himself, always did: that part of him that he can't "fix." So he got into outrageous sex. Then, he became HIV+. Now - and this is years later, he is a drug addict. Now what? Yes, still a Jew - extremely observant. But there is nothing for him to look forward to. He can only see pain.
Anonymous
New York, New York
June 27, 2008
Fitting in...
Thanks Bronya,
Beautifully written, "Gut gezogt."
Rus Devorah
Brooklyn, NY
June 27, 2008
Excellent
Outstanding and concise analysis! Could not have been written any better. Your insight here conforms precisely to the Mosaic Law. It is refreshing to read input like this that has not been polluted by political correctness or popular opinion.
Paul
Los Angeles, CA
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