By Aron Moss
 | If insisting that you will only date Jews makes you racist, does insisting that you will only date men make you sexist?
105 Comments Posted
I suspect that the question of the Jewish birthright only borders on racism if one possesses such a birthright by has no regard for the Jewish covenant itself. What's the point of being a Jew from birth and not having a relationship with G-d and Torah and Israel and living in accord with all that? Such a distinction then does tend to smack of racism; but the young lady in this instance is only discriminating because she obviously cares very deeply about her covenant and it's requirements, and that discrimination is not bad. I can find no fault in your response at all, Rabbi Moss.
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The co-worker was out of line to call her racist for wanting a Jewish husband! Sounds like the guy was hoping to get a date with this woman, and his racist accusation was sour grapes! Obviously, she's Jewish and a Jewish husband is most likely to have the same values. I hear plenty of Christians say their spouse has to be Christian. Obviously, many people want a spouse with the same values. Nothing racist about it.
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Rabbi Moss: Thank you for a heartening answer. It is good to feel validated by someone, somewhere, whose opinion can be respected.
I feel the same as the woman who asked the question. I, too, want only to marry a man who has a deep relationship with the true G-d--from a family, a people, a culture deeply devoted to worshiping and revering the only true G-d. In the American culture, such devotion to G-d is lost.
I, however, will not live life without Him central to it--and will not marry a man who does not feel the same.
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This has happened to me in the past as well with this issue as well as others and I've always noticed a double standard. For example, I would hear how it is crazy for me to want to marry only a Jew, but from that same person I was told how they would only marry someone who is super model thin and younger and not from another country.
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Rabbi Moss:
It's a heartening answer, but only a half- truthful one. Not all Jewish men and women are physically able to have babies, yet they still can create a family. And, contrary to your suggestion, same-sex Jewish couples can also have Jewish families.
Respectfully, in your own words, "You are talking about who you want to marry."
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Informative yet concise, witty and to the point! Thanks!
(I teach Hebrew High students and “Dating Jew vs. non-Jew” issue is a recurring theme in the classroom constantly raised by my students…)
So, as u can imagine, I can use ALL the resources I can get. THANKS !!
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Thank you for such a wonderful response to a problem that many Jewish women are faced with.
I for one have been called a racist several times for not wanting to date non Jewish men.
Marrage is a serious commitment and virtually guaranteed to fail if both parties don't have the same values and in my personal opinion commitment to G-d and Judaism.
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"And there is no racial issue here. Jewishness is neither a race, nor a religion. It is a soul identity. The man you marry can be a European Jew or an Oriental Jew, a black Jew or a white Jew. He can be a Jew by birth or a Jew by choice. But if you want a Jewish family, he's got to be a he, and he's got to be a Hebrew."
Rabbi Moss's answer was outstanding...I don't know of many Rabbis that would even suggest the idea of marrying other color Jews in response to a person's question on discrimination. Rabbi Moss is obviously a very educated Rabbi and more Rabbis should speak out on discrimantion in terms of religion and not the color of another Jew.
Well done!!!
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When the man used the term "racist" he meant bigoted. People often interchange the two & there are many forms of bigotry in the world. If we get stuck in semantics, we miss the Divine lesson to be learned & growth opportunity. There are many things people may want in a partner; financial security, emotional support, community standing, a home, dependablity, spiritual unity, etc.
We must watch our thoughts & words so that they do not become bigoted or offensive. The learning opportunity here resides in the halachot of shmrat halashon & refraining from onaat devarim. We don't need to blab (gossip about) our spousal criteria to others unless there's a shidduch involved.
If one does blurt, saying "I want to marry someone who shares my religious beliefs" is far more appropriate than "I would never date or marry a non-Jew." If you contemplate it, the two have very different connotations.
The lesson here is about -our- halachot of appropriate speech, not faulting the other guy.
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A Hebrew? A Soul Identity? I never thought of it that way!
I knew Jews came in different "packages", but I always had the understanding that Judaism was a religious faith that taught the belief in one God.
Obviously, this woman's Non-Jewish colleague is very misguided. The woman was talking about religion, NOT race.
"Mixed" Jewish Marriages exist - Ashkenaz and Sephard is one example. I sincerely believe that no matter what Jewish man this woman marries, I hope she'll be happy.
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What do gentile women think of this jewish woman who would not couple with a gentile male?
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I think it is interesting, and I generally emphasize, that the point is I believe in my religoun and want to raise children in this manner. Therefore I want someone with my same beliefs. But, as you stated, the point is not race but about how you will raise your children. Thus a convert is equal to a Jew of "Jewish Race." And the David hamelech example does well to bring home the point.
I am basically trying to say that I emphasize it is about the religous beleif and life and keeping that going. and if a person can truly go through what it takes to do an orthodox conversion they are attesting to their committment and can be my wife.
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Another answer is that g-d made sure your soulmate is a jew.
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It’s offensive & hurtful to declare "I would not marry a non-Jew" to coworkers or in any social situation.
The same applies a non-Jewish coworker declaring "I would never marry a Jew" to us.
"Onaat Devarim is often simply the product of insensitivity, or the mistaken belief that opinions on such matters as physical appearance, a new purchase, a spouse, someone else’s background or perceptions, and so forth, are open fields for frank discussion." Chofetz Chaim (CC)
"When one speaks to family, friends, even strangers, in a gentle, considerate way, one’s words become conductors of tremendous positive power." CC
"All my life I have been raised among the Sages, and I have not found anything better for oneself than silence. Whoever talks excessively brings about sin." R' Shimon
“Let the honor of your neighbor be as dear to you as your own."
"It is forbidden to utter a statement which essentially is not derogatory, if either the speaker or the listener considers it derogatory." CC
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i would only settle for a jewish wife.it is people with that attitude that are racist. to me as they think the world and all people in it should give up who they are and be like them. a bunch of no ones with no idententy, no roots
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I think it's truly amazing to hear how jews try and justify their bigotry. Why can't you just be honest with yourselves? You're bigots and you see nothing wrong with it. Please stop trying to rationalize it away with semantics.
I am a white woman and I wouldn't date or marry a black person. I admit to being bigoted in that aspect of my life. I have a right to choose any man I wish. I am not out to please the liberal society. I do not want half black/half white children for the same reasons you do not want half jewish/half gentile children.
I hope you are able to convince yourselves that you are not bigoted, because you certainly do not fool the gentile population.
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People outside the Jewish religion cannot understand how important it is to us to continue to marry within our faith. Even so, 50% of jewish marriages today are intermarriages. If we continue that way, we will wipe out ourselves very soon without any help from the anti-Semites!!
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I'm NOT Jewish and I see nothing wrong with Jews only wanting to marry Jews. There's a whole religious and cultural aspect associated with Judiasm that can only be respected intimately by other Jews. Even if I were to convert, I don't think I can truly relate to the total capacity of the Jewish culture and faith.
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I read your post and was a bit confused by it....you see a jewish person marrying a Non-jew is not supposed to be motivated by color lines, rather it is suppose to be rooted in a belief in a lifestyle that Jews share. I believe your analogy is very disturbing because whiteness nor blackness is a culture in its own right and Judaism in addition to be being a religion is indeed our culture. All this coming coming from a woman who herself is a Jew and black colored skin. Real jew.....not convert etc.
I think what I find even more disturbing is that, this individual may be thinking the same thing that many others feel as well. With that in mind, we as Jews should watch the way we treat the nochrim or strangers to our religion with some type of respect, and perhaps in time they will understand that Jewishness is the a universal culture for those of us blessed to be of this faith.
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it never ceases to amaze me that people come up with that stock accusation, when a Jew states their preference to marry a Jew. At my last job, my supervisor stated flaty that she, as a black woman would never date a white man. Did I consider her racist even though that is a racial issue. No, that is what she is attracted to. Black people can prefer black partners, Hispanics can prefer Hispanics, other ethnic or racial groups can prefer their own, but if a Jew prefers a Jewish partner that's racist. What hypocracy. You are not racist.
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For poster Malka: My dear, you speak in terms of treating the non-Jew with respect, which I certainly agree with. But in your post you have treated many fellow Jews with a lack of respect. I am a Jew by Choice and I studied for 10 years prior to my conversion. I have learned Hebrew, pray daily, attend shul weekly, and stood before a bet din and answered their questions and proclaimed my desire to be a Jew. I have never had any Jew refer to themselves as "real Jews", implying that converts are not real Jews. In fact, it is against Jewish law to single out converts. When there are so many who are against us, it saddens me to see one of my own defining classes of "Jewishness", with converts being last on the list. I suggest some more Torah study for you. I wish you well.
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I agree with your comments... but please know that the term is Asian Jew, not Oriental Jew!
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In most cases it is racist. An American Jewish woman is usually white and the vast majority of American Jews are white as well. They are rather not black Jews, are they?
There is a difference between being sexist and racist, Dear Author. Non-white and non-Jewish men are also men after all, so this comparison is purely demagogic on zour part. If an American white declares he (or she) is dating only American whites, that person is immediately considered racist and rightly. And there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG ABOUT IT. Race is a factor integrating populations into societies exactly as religion is such a factor as well. No-one says it is the only factor or that it is the most important of all factors, but just that it is such a factor.
The vast majority of people on this planet are racist to a grater or lesser degree. But only a tiny minority has the guts to admit it...
Cheers!!!
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One might add to the notion of Jewish identity, the issue of culture. To marry within one's culture, may seem to the ethnically uninformed, "ethnocentric." And yet the familiar practices of Judaism may be as binding as soul attraction.
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What is wrong with wanting to spend your life with some one who grew up with similar customs? It's so much easier not having to explain things such as traditions, humor etc. I feel that with intermarriage, usually the child is torn between both parents and chooses no religion at all.
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There is a (unique) problem concerning Jewish marriages and Australia. The entire population of Australia is approximately 20 million. Among those relatively few peoples is a tiny group of people (to select a prospective mate). This of course can (and often does) require young Jewish woman from either marrying a non jew or going through life single. A tough decision..
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All the responses to this question have been rather ambigous.
The facts are, that in expressing ones preference that a marriage partner share certain common traits is neither racist, nor even as one contended justifiable racism.
In such cases, a person is simply exercising a choice, a preference. The exercise of which is an inherent right of the individual. The potential flaw the choice resides in the motivating basis of their choice. That is, whether the choice is benign or malicous in nature.
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OK most of yall are being rather vague. Let''s do some nitty gritty.
I want a husband who will be active in the synagogue. A husband who says Modeh ani in the morning with me. A husband who dovens with tallis and tefillin every morning the way my father did.
Too much? Try this, for a bare minimum:
I want a husband who makes kiddush on Friday night and yomtov after I bentsh licht.
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This reminds me of the comments that were posted to the US News website recently. It seems that Israel has been accepting refugees from Darfur, but finally had to "close the door" if you will. Israel is after all about the size of Rhode Island. The criticisms are not to be believed, as can be imagined, everything from citing the Holocaust, to Nazism, blah, blah, blah. In the mean time, the people have several countries surrounding them, Egypt (about 100x bigger than Israel), Uganda, Chad, yet they are pressing on to Israel Why, well could it be that the surrounding countries are mostly Muslim and the people who are fleeing Sudan are Christians fleeing Muslim persecution. No one who criticized Israel, "wondered" why the Sudenese neighbors can't take in the refugees, all they could see is that Israel had to turn some people away. We are always blamed for everything, from wanting to marry someone of our own faith, or having to close the door because there is no more room. Silly me.
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Rachel is right on.
But about a Jewish husband:
I want a husband who makes kiddush Friday nights.
I want a husband who builds a sukkah in the fall.
I want a husband who conducts the seder.
If you can do that, I'll go out with you eagerly, regardless of race.
If you can't be bothered to do that, you're obviously not interested in ME.
Maybe you're even antiSemitic.
NO?
Well, if you don't do what I want, calling you that name makes at least as much sense as your calling me "racist" for not doing what YOU want.
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who like me can tell in many miles of words how much pain and suffering being married to a nonjew can be!
he has resented our holidays and shabbat, he just wanted to destroy our joy,
and till now i have not realized that i think with a jewish mind, and can not understand cruelty and not wanting to be connected to G-d and the jewish tradition.
the jewish soul longs to connect to another jewish soul , that is the way we are built , anything less is pain and suffering
ask me, i will tell you plenty
stick to your own , even if it doesnt work out at least your children will know a jewish home which is complete and whole and not division and arguments
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I married a convert. After all, we don't get a lot of Jews around here, and this is where my family wound up. My husband was sincere; he did not like Christianity and thought he might like being Jewish better since it didn't have "that man," whom the Christians worship, in it.
First of all, my child grew up with one grandmother who celebrated Christmas, etc. and who did not keep kosher. I remember the day when my little 3-year-old saw her eating ice cream and said, "Grandma, you're fleishig!" (She had just eaten meat, and Jews are forbidden to ingest dairy products for six hours after eating meat, in order not to mix Life with Death.) I said to him, "Grandma is a Christian, and it's OK for Christians to mix milk and meat."
As for my husband, it turned out that One Gd was one too many for him.
As for the child, he went to a Jewish day school and is married and shomer mitzvos.
(Ie he keeps the commandments, keeps kosher, keeps Shabbos, etc.
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I am married to a non jew, and he is a wonderful husband. Yes, there are challenges, and I admit, I long for him to be 'driving' the train, but he is very supportive overall, our girls go to hebrew and religious school, and he participates a fair amount. I believe a good husband supports his wife in whats important to her. Do note, not all Jewish men are religious. My mother (a widow) recently remarried, and hes Jewish, but gets annoyed celebrating passover, etc..
And naturally nonjews see this as non tolerant. What you say is, "I'm not racist. I respect people of all faiths, cultures etc.. However, it is extremely important to me to live and share my life with someone who is as intertwined with Judiasm as they are with me, and we will raise our children in the Jewish faith. That is why I want to marry a Jew, not because they aren't some wonderful non Jewish men". If the response is that you are limiting yourself, choices, etc..reply, true, but for Judaism, etc. Be happy!
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Will you go to synagogue with me?
Will you respect the fact that I am saving myself for marriage?
Are you OK with the thought of bringing up your children Jewish? He may say,"Children! I'm only asking for ONE date!" For your reply to this, see below.
If you keep Friday nights, this one is good:
Are you OK with never again going out Friday night?
(He may say, "never again!!!"--I'm only asking for ONE date!
To which you reply,
"You never know where 'one date' can lead. If you are not open to the possibility of entering into my way of life, the relationship can never go anywhere and there is no point in starting.")
This also works with the queries below on Jewish children, kosher, & Shabbat.
These next two only work if you keep kosher and/or Shabbat, but if you do, these are really really good:
Are you OK going only to kosher restaurants forever?
Are you OK with not driving or using money on Saturday during daylight forever?
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Try saying this:
"How do you feel about going out with someone who could never tolerate a Christmas tree in her home? Don't answer yet. Think about it."
My friend Erika, a Jew, had a Christian roommate. As December approached, the roommate wanted an Xmas tree. Erika couldn't think of an objection. But once the tree was up, it made her very uncomfortable. Trees outside were one thing, but to have one imvading her own space, her home, was really disagreeable. She did not have to explain. I would feel funny too. Maybe the "uncomfortable" feeling translates to feeling violated. I would not like it, and I'll bet you would not like it either. Imagine having to put up with a tree in your home, influencing your children, for all your married life.
This one question might do it for you.
Then add, "I don't date someone if I know it can never go anywhere. Promise me you can do w/o an Xmas tree."
He may lie and say Yes.
Ask him to do without pork, &c. He'll give up!
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Let's keep it short.
The phrase these days is "deal breaker"
As in, "the idea of an Xmas tree in my home is a real deal breaker for me"
As in, "the idea of pork in my home is a real deal breaker for me"
As in "I don't travel on Shabbos; that's a deal breaker for me"
And even though this jerk (he is really a jerk, calling you racist! He's just using this to pressure you to date him, you know, some guys are like that!)--even though he is probably willing to lie a little or even a lot to get one date, on which he hopes to pressure you into other things you don't want to do and which need not be spelled out here, in spite of all that, a good long sequence of deal breakers will finally get to him. Eventually, he will say to himself,
Who wants to date such a grouch? It ain't worth putting up with this all through dinner. Forget it!
Or, he will make an anti-Jewish remark, at which you can then yourself say,
"If that is how you feel about what I AM, forget it!"
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Many good points here. Perhaps Sara put it best. I'm one of those Jews with a liberal, secular background who used to see intermariage as almost the ultimate liberal sacrament of tolerance. My Dad did a token conversion to mary my Mom. I once asked a Jewess why she was prejudiced against gentiles. She beautifully explained that she was not bigotted at all; she said she could easily fall in love with almost any sort of person, but she simplly wanted a man who would share her religion with her. Then I got it.
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As a recent convert, I agree 110%. I want a Jewish husband and home as a way to strengthen and support my beliefs and grow spiritually. Is that racist, no. Is it discrimination, absolutely. It's no different from me saying that I won't date a smoker, someone that already has kids or that doesn't keep Kashrut. We all have choices to make, and you must be comfortable with those choices since you will spend the rest of your life dealing with the repercussions and responsibilies of them. I have decided that I will remain celibate and single until I find the one that HaShem has sent for me.
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A Jewish woman who wants a Jewish husband is not and cannot be called racist. Whites look to marry whites, yet that's never called racist. A black may prefer black friends.
Racism relates to institutional, political or societal unfairness. All people should be free to desire any "type" of marriage partner within the law.
Whether we limit our marriage choice by religion, race or looks, it is and--by definition--can never be anyone else's (or society’s) business. It can’t be “racist” as this Jewish woman’s “one-time marriage choice” doesn’t have any broad pernitious effect on non-Jewish men (maybe she's doing them a favor, who knows?)
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Personal choice can be racist and in many cases is racist. The fact that majority of people marry partners of the same race can be (though does not have to be) classified as racist. The thing is that racism is not only related to terms like "racial hatred" or "racial inferiority". Precisely like nationalism encompasses far wider meanings than the one of today's political slang. In fact race is one of factors contributing to integration of populations into societies. It is not the only factor, not even necessarily the most important one. It is just one of such factors, precisely like nationhood, religion, language, cultural background, patriotism, regionalism etc. Human conscience is a multi-level phenomenon and we are formed by those very "levels" of sense of belonging.
So even if it is undoubtedly true that religion itself does not impose racially motivated choices (in fact it quite often crosses racial and national boundaries...) in America Jewishness runs parallel to raciality.
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1) Racism is practiced by the group in power, which imposes disabilities and scorn upon the other groups. When Jews, Latinos, African-Americans, and Asians seek to maintain their integrity despite the normative position of the dominant culture, it is not racism, it is self-defense.
2) However, if the group in question is racially heterogeneous, as is true of the Jews, then "racism" becomes a red herring. There are many Asian Jews, many black African Jews (especially in Israel), many dark-skinned Jews from Yemen and from India, and even some native American Jews. I would marry an attractive man of any of these Jewish groups sooner than a white Christian or Muslim. My basis is non-racial: cultural & religious. On a similar basis, a Catholic may link with a Catholic, who goes for "works," for praying to the Virgin, and for transubstantiation, rather than with a Protestant, who abhors all three. As a Jew, I abhor all these & the Protestant faith as well, so I need a Jew!
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Racism is often practiced BOTH by the majority AND minority within a society. For BOTH it is a sort of self-defense: for the minority in order to maintain their integrity; for the majority - to keep the integrity of their society, defending it against disintegration and atomization. Not long ago in Australia a young Iraqi woman was murdered by her father and brother. She dared to break with the integrity of her ethnic and religious community and to marry someone from “outside”. Her father and brother – in their understanding – merely acted in self-defense…
The question asked here is whether it is racist to want a Jewish husband. The simple answer is that it might be or not, depending on circumstances. Itself such a choice is neither racist nor non/racist. I strongly agree, that a person has his/her right to decide – without anyone’s interference - whom to want as his/her spouse whatever the reason for such a desire, racist or not.
By the way : one of my friends, a dark-skinned Jew from India, who is also an Israeli citizen, complained to me – and namely quite a few times – about a “strong racism” against such Jews in Israel… So it is so, like e.g. among many Catholics of various races, that religious bonds do not always overcome racial differences even between co-religionists…
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You are correct in noting that some light-skinned Jews are prejudiced against dark-skinned Jews. I agree that this is racist.
However, I think that we can agree that preferring simply to marry a Jew (a Jew, regardless of color) is, if I may be trivial about it, like wanting to marry a golfer. If we wanted to marry a golfer, we might count ourselves fortunate to marry Tiger Wood. If we wanted simply to marry a Jew, we may be happy to marry a dark-skinned Jew from India, if he is sympatico. Being a golfer, or a Jew, is simply one of the life-activities that we want to share with our life-partner.
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The premise of your entire argument is fundamentally flawed. You compare discrimination of marriage with men with discrimination of marriage with Jews, and you cite these two things as equally as prejudiced. However, marriage with men is a biological imperative. Women need to marry and reproduce with men, otherwise homo sapiens would be an evolutionary dead end. You cannot get around the fact that the continuation of species is dependent on reproduction.
It is also important to note that Ashkenazi Jews are genetically similar, and this is the cause of a high rate of genetic diseases.
You say, "But if you want a Jewish family, he's got to be a he, and he's got to be a Hebrew." This is not true though, because anyone that is born from a Jewish womb is considered Jewish by the Jewish community.
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Yes, but he didn't say "if you want Jewish children"--he said, "if you want a Jewish family"--and the family includes her husband. Family activities include Shabbos meals and seders and many other activities in which the husband & father is male, is part of the household, and performs Jewish acts, such as making kiddush, dovening, etc. A female is also needed--to separate the challah & to welcome the Shabbos Queen & the holy days by lighting the candles, as well as to maintain family purity by going to the mikveh. If these activities are missing from the family, the Jews in that family are deprived of Jewish family life.
My father loved dovening. It meant a lot to him after all he had been through in Europe. It gave gave him peace & joy. I hate to think what my childhood family would have been like without my father's dovening every morning, or walking in smiling and saying "Good Shabbos!" and making kiddush on Friday nights. Those elements made our house a home.
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My fiance insists he baptized me. My mother died with a priest at her side, I try to get along as I found other non-Jews as friends. I am a Jew non the less.
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You were born a Jew and you have a Jewish soul and you remain a Jew. Your fiance has proved he cannot be trusted. If you want to marry a nonJew that is one thing, but at least marry one whom you can trust not to sneak holy water onto you without your knowledge and consent.
What ELSE is he doing without your knowledge and consent? Going into your bank account? Sleeping around and bringing home diseases?
What kind of respect does he have for your spirituality? You need to get shut of this man before he betrays everything you are and everything you want.
You deserves a man who treasures and respects you. Hang on, dear, Friday's coming!
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My parents and grand parents were all very proud Roman Catholics. My father's mother insisted, that he only date Catholic girls. It is exactly the same situation.
My friend is in the middle of finding a good Russian Othodox Christian husband, because she refuses to marry anyone else.
Anyone with a strong background fo any time, Ethnic, Religious, or even social class will insist on finding someone within that group.
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my comment is for those who believe that those of us who are american born and raised (as opposed to foreign born)some how cannot be real jews.....as opposed to any number of sectors that proclaim to be jewish ...your choice to become is admirable, and yes according to jewish law pointing out someone's choice to enter the religion or to return to the path would be an infraction.
The issue still remains that people are using an analogy of color choice to Jewishness choice for mates which is really wong. This analogy is comparable to comparing oranges to apples...the common thread is that they are both fruit. The choice to marry a Jewish husband should told to someone in simple terms its a personal choice and that she is searching for someone who has something in common with her....and that she can share these traditions with.
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Being Jewish is a soul trait, not a blood trait. Jews can have any blood type and can give and receive blood from anyone. Our "blood" is not "superior". But marriage is a deep and spiritual sharing at the soul level. If a man wants to keep kosher and the woman doesn't know how, or if the woman wants to hear kiddush and eshet chayil every Friday night and the man can't be bothered to learn to sing them, the family's spiritual life is seriously compromised. And if the woman doesn't know how to kasher the house for Pesach, or the man doesn't know how to conduct a Seder, how are they going to teach their children the spiritual message of Gd's deliverance of Bnai Yisrael from slavery to freedom, which is the primary salvational message of the Torah? Without Pesach, how can anyone appreciate Matan Torah, when Gd CAME DOWN onto Sinai and spoke to ALL OF US, not only to Bnai Yisrael but also to all OUR souls, present w/o bodies, vibrating in tune with that incredible Revelation?
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If someone is truly compatible but does not come from a Jewish mother, he has the option of going to an orthodox rabbi and saying, "I have always admired the Jews. I feel comfortable among Jews. it's amazing how the Jews have been so faithful for thousands of years, how they've stuck it out despite the persecution. I'd like to be a Jew, but I feel unworthy of that kind of courage and faithfulness."
If a person says that, he will be considered a candidate for "conversion" and he can get circumcised and can go into the mikveh and have his Jewish soul officially recognized.
If you really want to date Jewish women, this is the way to open the door. Go for it!
Of course, if you are a nerd, it's possible that Jewish women won't like you any better than any other women....but if you are good at Hebrew, they may really dig it!!
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You are advised to run from anyone who uses the term" racist" in the wrong way. Racism is thinking one race is better than another.
Why would wanting a traditional jewish family and spouse be "racist" . It has nothing to do with race or thinking that one race is better than another. We have a right to choice and preference. This this guy doesn't seem to know the difference, and sounds unintellegent. I've gotten to hate that phrase as it is used wrongly so often.
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Tell him you would marry an Ethiopian Jew or any other righteous convert or similarly a Jew from Kaifeng if he got converted. You would marry any honest Jew from any race if you met him and loved him. But you would not marry, or even date, any man, Jew or otherwise, who attempted to bully you into dating him or who called you ugly names.
And this man has done both. Goodbye to him.
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i m sorry but the answer is so true, if you want an apple tree, well you have to have apple seed, and thats that.
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over all the comments have made a clear statement: if you want to have a jewish family , you need to have a jewish man and a jewish woman , simole math
then you have jewish children , education is part of the equation
then a lot of work and love and you get what you want, not what happens to you by chance!
having said that jewish dating sites dont make it easy to find dates
they charge a lot of money and complicate connections, it is a busines where it should be a mitzva
i am a divorcing jewish woman of 44 and a mother of 3 children living in europe
seeking a jewish partner to complete ourfamily . i was married to a nonjew , he has found a non jewish woman , now it is time for us 4 jews to connect with a nice man ! applicants may apply now
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Just say that you are going to marry a Jewish negro from South Africa. Of yes! Their Cohan's do carry the Cohan gene, and yes, they are Jewish.
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As a gentile, I respect Jews as being at the forefront of progress and the morally aware and rigorously intellectual approach to life that is required by their faith. However I must say that I find the Orthodox attitude towards intermarriage to be one of the most bigoted and offensive creeds I've ever seen. A charming little booklet entitled 'How to Prevent An Intermarriage' (on the site 'Simple to Remember') went as far as to advise that the offender's parents should threaten to fast to death to prevent the titular disaster.
To me, this reeks of elitism, prejudice and frankly, hatred. I think these elements of Jewish society have become so enamoured of themselves that they think everyone else are Neanderthals. As an ethnic Chinese I am familiar with that mentality. Let me remind you that it did more to destroy us than 1,000 years of interbreeding ever could.
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Definition of a racist as defined by dictionary.com- "Discrimination or prejudice based on race.." You are discriminating and choosing a Jewish husband to the exclusion of other races. Are you a racist? You look at the definition and you tell me?
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As a jew myself, I had 2 gorgeous boys with a non-jew and now that we are no longer together, I put my children in jewish schools and decided I was going to find a jewish hubby- Why, because I want jews to continue existing and also I want to learn about my people and I want my children and their children to be jews who love their religion and their people. I am very proud to be jewish and want to grow as a jew and become more spiritual. Jews are great and I am soooo proud to be jewish that’s why I will marry a jew and nothing else. I am not racist, I just know what I want for myself and my children. Go Jews!
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I am a Jewish male who married a Chinese woman, the same ethnicity as you. Ironically I learned Chinese and not Hebrew. Please be aware that there are many elements in Chinese society that do not believe that Chinese should intermarry. Moreover throughout Chinese history non-Chinese have been derogatorily termed barbarians and the like. Chinese culture is often aggrandized and other cultures belittled. The name "China" means "Middle Kingdom" as if China is the center of the world.
As you respect the progressive elements of Jewish society, I have a deep admiration for Chinese culture and civilization.
I disagree with my orthodox bretheren regarding intermarriage but I do not think that most of them are bigots nor do I think that they view non-Jews as Neanderthals.
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Go ahead and say that Jews are a race if you like.
But there are 100 000 black Jews from Ethiopia in Israel right now, and a Jew can properly marry any one of them.
There are also Chinese Jews, and a Jew can marry any one of them.
There are Jews of every size and build and color, with eyes of blue, green, and brown, with hair of blond, red, brown, and black, with every shade of skin from pale to black.
All of these Jews are available for other Jews to marry.
It is not the body we seek when we wed a Jew. It is the Jewish soul, which can inhabit any kind of body.
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My boyfriend's parents both converted from Christianity to Judaism after their marriage, but retained some of their Christian attitude while not instilling a Jewish menality in their children. My boyfriend wants to be more Jewish than his parents and clings to his Jewish identity, but he doesn't look, think, or fully act Jewish. Coming from a semi-practicing Reform background, I am only now as an adult beginning to practice on my own, and I am still deciding what kind of Jew I myself am, and what the meaning of Jewish spirituality is. My boyfriend feels that I am being racist against his Christian-Swedish ancestry, and that it is unreasonable to expect him to be more Jewish when I myself was raised knowing barely more than the fact that I am Jewish.
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Wanting a Jewish husband is racist. But there is nothing wrong with it. Jews wanting to preserve their culture is not bad. Just because you want to preserve your culture does not mean you look down on others.
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I'm Jewish and I'm a lesbian.
Guess I'm not allowed to have a family, huh?
Oh, wait! I'm still fertile even if I don't have a husband. And there's this amazing thing called adoption.
Interesting concepts.
This is the reason that GLBT people suffer so much in many orthodox communities.
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There are 1000,000 black Jews in Israel. From Ethiopia, mostly.
If a Jewish woman is holding out for a Jew and doesn't stipulate his race, he could be anything.
So that's NOT racist.
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The christian man who was offended at Jews wanting to marry other Jews should check his Christian Bible. It says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. I.e., a Christian should wed a Christian. The same applies to Jews. And I know a Chabad congregation with many Chinese women in it. They seem to be converts, but they are Jews. So if a Jew can marry an Ethiopian Jew or a Chinese Jew, but not a white Christian or a white Muslim, how is that racism? Religionism maybe?
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I agree it is not racist to want a jewish mate but I think here you are missing the major point: It is your preference to choose your mate with your own criteria. I believe nowadays people are being too sensitive to talk about race or religion. I think the basic rule is the more private the issue, the more range of the criteria you get, because it matters you more. Sitting on the bus is rather more public issue, but I would still choose to sit beside a nice and good looking lady, rather a dirty-dressed man with scar on his face. Am I being racist or descriminated to dirty-dressed men with scars? You bet I do, my guts talks!
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Want to hear something strange? I would want to marry a Jew who would not want to marry a non-Jew. I guess I am wishing that I was a Jew.
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That is absurd! I could see if you said I'm not dating other races whether they practice Judaism or not. That would be racist.
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I know many Christians who will not only date just Christians, but only those who beling to a spcific type of Christianity, like Baptist, Catholic, etc. No one accuses them of discrimination.
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Exactly. But all I am saying is if you want to marry someone within your religion, that is fine. But race should have nothing to do with it. If you both serve The Father then race should not become a determining factor.
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How can a Hebrew Be Oriental. This makes no sense.
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This is so biased as to the comments you print and some of them are so racist you cannot see past your own racist noses.
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I'm not sure who replied to my post but I got an email notifying me that someone did. Basically, what I was saying is that I want to marry a Jewish man who was raised Jewish & loves Israel so much that he wouldn't mind moving there. I would want him to be very knowledgeable about the BIble and follow G-d very closely. I wish that Israel would let me come and stand with them in arms against her enemies.
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AARON: "Does insisting that you will only date men make you sexist?"
HENRY: No, Aaron. It makes you heterosexual.
AARON: "if you want a Jewish family, he's got to be a he"
HENRY: Not true. Gay jews certainly adopt or through artificial insemination have children. And gay jews, in two states currently with probably many more on the way, can legally marry.
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I think this thread just forked here. Now that the topic of homosexuality has grafted itself into this branch of discussion.
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GENEVON, it was AARON MOSS who invited the issue of homosexuality into this discussion with his two statements: (1) "Does insisting that you will only date men make you sexist?" and (2) "if you want a Jewish family, HE's got to be a HE". And if you'll read the threads above, I am not the first to challenge him on those statements. What's more, remember, Massachusetts and Connecticut allow marriage equality. Other states like New Jersey are likely soon to follow, as you know. So, expanding the discussion a little bit: Is it Racist for Me, a Gay Man, to Want a Jewish Husband? And on that I would agree with Aaron Moss: No, it is not.
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An oriental Hebrew (or Jew) means that this person or his/her ancestors come from an Asian country, like Jemen, or even China, not that (s)he is what Americans call and 'oriental', viz. e.g. a Korean or Chinese person or a person with e.g. Chinese ancestry. This has all noting to do with racism but with values. People like to share values with their spouse, and it does not matter whether that spouse is black, white, yellow, brown or from the same culture/country etc. as long as they have the same values. I am European, my husband is American (and believe me, there are big cultural differences), but we fully agree on what we expect from marriage and on how to raise the kids. That's what counts.
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I agree that expectations from marriage and how to raise the kids are very important things to agree about. It's also important to agree on the Faith.
I haven't read each of the posts so I guess I'm not sure when the subject of homosexuality entered in originally. It's just the most recent ones that I've read. One of my best friends is gay but he doesn't know that I know about it. We have never discussed it. He does know my beliefs on it though, since I was quite verbal before I found out that he was one himself. I still love him though. I'm hoping he won't remain one since I want him to go to Heaven.
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Racism is at the core of the situation. Yes, it certainly is racist, but not necessarily bad. My concern is for the Jewish person who is ostracized for failing to make faith a priority. To pass judgment based on one characteristic is the textbook definition of discrimination. Racism is perhaps not the proper term, but it is of the same variety.
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The Jews were rejecting in Europe partly for being non-christian but also for being non-European.
The Holy Land is in Asia. That's why it's called the MIddle EAST.
And by the way, "oriental" is a patronizing way to refer to Asians. It comes from the word "orient" which means east of Europe and thus presumes that Europe is the number one spot from which all others are to be gauged. If you are IN Asia, you are not "east of" yourself. Asia is "west of" San Francisco. It is only "oriental" if you orient yourself FROM EUROPE.
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Go to a modern orthodox synagogue. Go regularly and see how you like it.
If you still wish you were a Jew, approach the rabbi and ask for instruction. Maybe you were born with a Jewish soul and you can "convert" and make it official.
Once you have converted modern orthodox, most all Jews will recognize you as a Jew. But eventually you may want to convert Lubavitch as well. Since by then you will have a "track record" of keeping kosher and doing the other mitzvot, there is a good chance that they will convert you their way too.
Conversion involves learning the bare essentials, going in the Mikveh (sacred waters), and being officially declared a Jew by a Bet Din (a court of three rabbis). If you are a man then of course you need to get circumcised before going in the Mikveh. While you are in the mikveh you will experience the awakening of your Jewish soul. Everyone I know who has gone in the mikveh has told me of this experience.
As a Jew you can marry a Jew.
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I realize that the halachah assumes that it is, but look at the language. The Bible has 3 ways to mention sex: to lie with, to know, and to go into. It could have said, Thou shalt not lie with mankind to know him and to go into him. That would clearly have meant not to have homoerotic sex. But it does not say that. It says, Thou shalt not lie with mankind AS WITH WOMANKIND. Well, of course not. It's impossible to lie with mankind AS WITH WOMANKIND. Mankind doesn't have the equipment for it. And the Bible HAS two expressions to make it clear that it means "having sex wtih" but instead it says AS WITH WOMAN kind. Maybe it merely means not to have sex with a hermaphrodite?
And theTalmud, in the interest of "fairness," forbids Lesbian sex as well. Why? I can see warning against wasting seed, but Lesbians don't waste ovums. A woman can have sex with another wman and her ovulation can still be the occasion for getting pregnant. The Bible rightly did NOT forbid Lesian sex.
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The Christian text says "be not unequally yoked with unbelievers."
Why does a Christian WANT to marry a Jew--or any other nonChristian who does not consent to become Christian?
OK, suppose there are no nations with a Christian majority, or only one the size of New Jersey. Everywhere else the vast majority (99%) are either Muslim or Buddhist. And you are a Christian in a Buddhist nation. Will you
*date everyone and marry whoever appeals to you, knowing your home will have a Buddha statue & your children will be taught Buddhism?
*date only those who would agree not to have a statue of the Buddha in your home?
*date only those who would consider becoming a Christian?
*seek out and date only those who are already Christian?
Notice that race is not a factor!!!
Christians come in all races.
And so do Buddhists.
And so do Jews!
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I am agnostic, though was raised Catholic since I was little. My boyfriend is Jewish, though I had no idea he was until after we began dating; to me it didn't matter because in the modern world you can't pick your soul mate. You find each other, regardless of religion or race.
I have no desire to convert, though if we had children, I would have no problem with him raising them Jewish.
Is that such a problem to marry a non-Jew? I feel that because I am showing respect for the religion (I would even do a Jewish wedding ceremony) I feel I should also be shown the same respect.
I do understand the desire for families to see the Jewish community grow. But don't assume if they don't marry a Jewish person, the Jewish faith will not continue on.
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Man and women were created as companions for each other. Religion was created by man to separate and alienate. G-D created us with the greatest gift of all..The ability to Love. Would you forego the second greatest Love of your life simply beacuse the person doesn't fit your cardboard cut-out? There are Good Jews, christians,buddists, hindi, muslims as well as terrible ones. G-d has many faces to many people. G-D wants a Man to be with woman. That we know as fact so the first part of the statement is absurd. I take insult to people who believe that just because someone happens to be something, or come from somewhere, makes them a better person. No group is any better than another. Its the individuals. If I said "Don't marry Jewish women because once you do they won't fufill their duties at night" I would sound totally absurd, and rightly so. Not all jewish women are like that. thats stereotyping. Love comes to you. Its magical., spectacular, and Love chooses you not vice-versa
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Oriental is a commonly used term for Jews with Middle Eastern (i.e. Oriental) ancestry such as Yemen or Iraq. The Hebrew word for Oriental (or Eastern) is "Mizrachim" and it is perfectly acceptable. Incidentally, there is nothing "patronizing" about calling a region by a direction (e.g. Eastern, Western, Oriental, etc.). "Europe" comes from the old Greek word for West, and Asia comes from the ancient Greek word for East. In the ancient Greek worldview, Greece was the center, so everything west of Greece was Europe, while everything east of Greece was Asia, so even if you call people from China, Japan, etc. "Asian", you are still calling them "Eastern", and there is therefore no reason not to call them "Oriental" which means the exact same thing!
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That's from one of Paul's epistles.
If you regard your style of worship as unimportant, that is where you are at.
We Jews regard our relationship to Gd as integral to who we are. Gd, the Torah, and the Holy Land are the roots of our soul. Our soul mate must have the same roots to his/her soul.
I suppose I might marry a non-Jew if he agreed never to mention any object of worship (such as Jesus or Buddha or Krishna), never to have any idols (such as a statue or a crucifix) or an Xmas tree in the house, never to bring pork or other unkosher meat into the house, always to respect my separation of the dishes, pots, pans, etc. into dairy on one side of the kitchen, meat on the other side, and in every way to avoid inflicting on me customs from any religion of his forebears, while permitting me to inflict on him the Pesach Seder, the Friday night dinner blessings, and all the other daily and seasonal practices that go with being a Jew. But would that be fair to him?
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Why did he mention it at all?
If he wanted to make a point, he could have said, "Jewish women all have wings" or some other statement that was obviously nonsense.
Instead he chose to broadcast an idea which is false but possible.
The fact is, by the way, that Jewish women are highly passionate and enthusiastic. But most will not say so, as they are taught to be modest. Until the time comes, and then have at it.
Perhaps Jewish women are concerned that men who are not raised Jewish might not be able to deal with this high a degree of enthusiasm, but are confident that Jewish men can.
But marriage is about more than that.
True marriage occurs at a soul level.
What stirs in your soul when you see a Torah? Do you feel like kissing it?
When you hear Hebrew, does it open a path to Gd?
When you set foot in Jerusalem, do you feel the tremendous spiritual energy rising from the ancient stones, from the soil?
If YES, marry me!
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yes, and Xmas tree is an insulting term as well. It is like saying something nasty about a Jewish holiday. So at least try a bit harder to hide your racism if you are trying to be convincing in the rarionalization.
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There is nothing offensive about the term "Xmas". Historically, the X has been a sort of Christian shorthand for "Christ". It started because the Greek word for mashicah "christos", starts with the letter chi, which looks like an X in our (Latin) alphabet. It's not uncommon to see Xmas for Christmas or "Xtian" for Christian in writings throughout the las 2000 years. Your offense is unfounded.
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To those who are gay or lesbian or who have written that gays can marry in at least two states as if that somehow invalidates the Rabbi's point, it doesn't invalidate it in the least. Gays may be able to marry according to the laws of those states, but not according to Judaism, and which one is more important to us?! Two Jews with a state-issued marriage license do not a Jewish marriage make. The fact that state laws may allow an interreliggious or same-sex marriage to be legal (i.e. state sanctioned) has no effect on halacha. The Rabbi's still right on that most important point.
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If you are a real Jew, read the Sacred Book (The Holy Bible) the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deutronom. The Almighty God told Moses to tell Israel not to intermarry with the tribes of Cannan or those around them. It is now specifically stated in Deutronom 28 v 1 to 14 about the results of obedience to God's word. From Verses 15 of the same book speaks about results of disobedience.
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Ok, so for all the people in places like Kiryas Joel who want their kids not to be exposed to kids of other religions or other ideas on the bus. Well what if I, a a white non-Jew, insisted that I didn't want my kid sitting next to or being exposed to other, say Jewish, kids and their ideas because I love my traditions and culture so much and don't want to risk their going astray. Is that racist? YES and back at you.
There are camps near I live where they BRAG about how separate they keep the kids from gentiles. You need to move to a religious state where all your religious whims that exclude others will be met. NOT America where we intermarry and have a melting pot.
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Hi, Jane. It's not racist because it doesn't have anything to do with race. A person of any race can become a Jew if he or she is sincere in his or her convictions and goes through a conversion according to halacha (Jewish law). The same can't be said about race. For example, a Chinese person or an American Indian can't become white, no matter how much he may want to because a person's ancestry can't be changed. Regardless, ANY group, be it a religion, race, culture or otherwise, has a right to want to preserve itself and make sure it goes on in the coming generations. That's not racism but self-preservation because your children and their children are a part of you and you have a right to have them be like you (this is one reason why intermarriage is forbidden). For some reason, whites have been taught it's bad to want to preserve their culture and traditions while promoting everyone else's right to do so. Wanting to preserve your heratige doesn't mean you hate everyone else!
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for some reason? violence, killing, torture , concentration camps come to mind as reasons. In the not too distant past people didn't allow Jews in their neighborhoods, their schools, their clubs , purely because they were Jewish. Hitler didn't care if a Jew converted to Christianity--he killed them anyway because he was a racist pig. Now anyone who defends this racism is as racist as Hitler.
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Jane Wilder is a bigot!! I am African American and Jewish and I found it quite offensive that you wouldn't have a half black child. By the way, my husband is caucasian and also Jewish. Just so you know, Judaism is a religion, one in which anyone who is sincere, can convert. I would not marry a non-jew because they do not share my values as an Orthodox Jew. When a Jew says they want to marry Jewish, people are quick to yell discrimination, but when a Christian says it, no one calls the Christian a racist. Marrying within our religion is vital in order for the Jews to continue to flourish. If we didn't abide by Halacha and married whomever we wanted, in a short period of time, Judaism would cease to exist. Apart of me thinks that's what people want anyway. In response to one of the above posts, if the woman is not Jewish, the children will not be Jewish. It doesn't matter how you decide to raise the children.
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You've nailed it, Ortho. Because anyone of any race can become a Jew, insisting on marrying a Jew is not racist- PERIOD! As the article recognizes, it is discriminating, but people have every right to and do discriminate when searching for a spouse. I've known Orthodox Christians who only want to marry other Orthodox, born-agains who will only marry another born-again. And it doesn't stop with religion. I know men who discriminate against women who aren't particularly attractive or who smoke. I also know women who won't even look at men who don't have a certain income or a college degree or if they already have children. Are they limiting themselves? Yes. Is that wrong? Absolutely not. It's their right. That's not the same as telling someone "sorry, the apartment's been rented" because you don't like their skin tone. We may be a "melting pot", but no one can be forced to intermarry. Besides, when has anyone or anything been praised for being "indiscriminate"?
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Ok, its religious/ethnic bgotry-but not on my part and btw, II DO have a child of another race so clam up orthochick. I was using the example as another example of bigotry-learn to read at least before you insinuate or infer. If you wouldn't like Jews or any other group to be treated as unacceptable by a society, you have no right to treat others as unacceptable. When Jews used to be barred from clubs and politics and other groups the rest of us fought for Jewish equality and right to mingle at any college. Now this is the answer the non-Jews of the US get. Oh yeah, well we can't go to school with you or sit on the bus with you or go to camp with you or eat at your house or have you use our sink or cook our food, because what if our kids are exposed to you fall in love and want to marry you--NOT THAT!! well that is bigot
I said race because many Jews in Israel insist it is a race . So have it both ways . I don't care--you are still the one who is a bigot while we are name calling
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I am a Nigerian American Jew of (IGBO) ANCESTARY. According to our oral tradition and customs which is called" ome ri ali" meaning our way of life; we are jews who were part of the scatered rememant. Now, the new reawakening in the Igbo of their Jewish heritage can only be classified as a miracle. I for one, my story can only be attributed to devine perovidence. This return of the Igbos after more than 1500years of conversion by force, and seduction by Christaindom( Britsh), is happening one in a family, one from a clan, two from a village all over Igbo land only by devine grace.
Now, G_d has blessed me with daughters, and son. Imagine, after more than 1500years of all my ancestors, I am the only one whom G_d has show favour to be redeemed. Do you really think i would be glad to see that wasted for my children to marry gentiles? Do you?. May G_d never allow me to see that.
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I understand this lady's desire to marry Jewish as I am a Christian raised man who seeks a Jewish wife. I have studied books on interfaith marriages. Most of my Jewish friends and my parent's Jewish friends have married outside of the faith. Success seems to depend on the commitment of the husband and wife to each other. My first principles in this matter are to focus on the common ground and respect difference which apply to nearly all successful relationships. Focus on the success stories and learn form the mistakes of others. When you make a mistake, say "I'm sorry" and hope for the best.
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just to correct something: '' He can be Jew by birth or Jew by choice''. I am not Jew but I know that you can never ever can be a Jew by choice...you are born as a Jew...there is no any other way you can be a Jew.
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Racism is racism no matter how you spin it. If you won't associate with or marry a person because of their religion and then say, "my religion made me do it," the religion is bigoted.
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You can be a Jew by choice if you do an Orthodox Jewish conversion by a Orthodox beit din.
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