By Yanki Tauber
 | What kind of "free choice" do we have, if we didn't choose to be presented with that choice?
63 Comments Posted
I'm sorry, but I think this kind of thinking insults the many human beings that find themselves victims of tragedies that have no resolution. Does the author - who is usually astute - really think that a shaken baby who is paralyzed, made retarded and blinded because of parental abuse chose his circumstances? Or the young mother who dies from cancer, leaving little ones motherless? This is a very simplistic way of looking at things, and I have heard it many times before, usually from people who have no personal experience in dealing with horrible, intractable circumstances.
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simply brilliant. dazzling.
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Those of us who have experienced horrible, personal tragedies DO NOT need to hear this rubbage. We did not CHOOSE to be injured. I am astounded that Chabad allowed this simplistic, naive, injurous material to be printed on this website.
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how does this saying from pirkei avos 4:22 fit in:"againast your will you were born etc."
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We enter this world not only to learn but to teach, and some of the lessons we have to teach can only be taught by what we earth-bound neshamas call "tragic". Sometimes the lesson a soul needs to teach does not last long -- these are babies that die young. What is more offensive: such babies dying for "no reason," or that they chose their limited assignment for the betterment of the world?
And in case you are wondering, I have lived through many tragedies myself -- rape, verbal and emotional abuse among others. Because I have survived these things, I have much more empathy for my fellow humans than I would have had otherwise. Not only does knowing I chose this life NOT offend me, but it gives me peace of mind. I'm sorry for those that cannot understand this.
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I must concur with "anonymous". I cannot possibly fathom some souls choosing the life they lead on this earth.
Unless there is some details of conversations with G-d we are not aware of, or there is more Jewish mystical literature dealing with this issue, I find the article preposterous in the face of a world that contains so much suffering.
After all, if a Hebrew letter (Alef) can protest about its own circumstances, certainly a human can do so and be vindicated, also.
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You seem to imply that the hardships we face are due to our own desire--I guess it is possible if we are to see the full scheme of things, our past lives, our deeds & the opposite (G-d forbid). Then maybe we asked for these particular tests and trials in health wealth , etc.
or
Was the request a general one, that we want to serve G-d----we may never know,
or
Only after 120 we get a glimpse and chance to defend our actions and understand the reason for those tests and trials--
For now, just do the right thing!
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I totally agree with "Posted By Anonymous, Copley, OH"
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Of course I am speculating, but I think the point is that at the time we are given the choice to choose to be created, G-d also tells us our purpose which, unfortunately, we generally forget and have to search for through most of our life's journey. No, the baby did not choose to be abused, but perhaps that child's purpose from G-d was to enlighten another human being about the inhumanities that children suffer, and the child's soul said "Yes, create me because I want to fulfill that purpose." There is so much tragedy and inhumanity in this world, but I truly do believe that all comes from G-d and all things have purpose. I agree with the author's take on this.
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dear sir
i refer to ure 'rosh hashana' email
to me i find it hard to understand on your understanding of free choice
why do u assume that free choice means that we had the choice to be jewish we never really did:
it says in the torah that by mount sinai G-d turned the mountain like a barrel over our heads and if we refused the torah then he would crush us. clearly there is no element of free choice. our sages learnt the on purim we accepted the torah by free will. However clearly it was already a fait accompli rather a question of free choice. the commenteries explain that we needed an element of force to be subjected to G-ds will.
Rather free will means we are given the ability to ultimately choose our own destiny--"and you shall choose life"
thank you for the email. I look forward to recieving more from you
speedily awaiting ure reply
moishe
PS when i was recently in shanghai and hongkong i very much appreciated the good work that you do
thank you chabad
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Thanks to Mr Tauber for an excellent bite size shiur. Very well rounded and to the point. Obviously I do not know the personal circumstances of the previous posts author, but I think it's a little unfair of him/her to make such a blazing criticism of the article when its subject had little to do with personal tragedy and was a good explanation of a particularly difficult verse. I hope he/she finds peace with whatever he/she is dealing with.
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Having been in "one of those situations", I will say that this "simplistic" way of looking at things, works very well for me. I do not understand the "why" of it, it is not always fair, it is often painful...and, I truely believe that I did choose these "adversities" in "life before life" for whatever reason. Probably for spiritual evalution and/or perfection.
Breifly...I have experienced the passing of two sons <one of which after two extrememly long illnesses>, the passing of one husband, the loss of my mother at age 15 <which was sudden and without closure>, the loss of the <step> father, who raised me. A chronic, progressive terminal illness, which I passed on to two of my children. And...I think that just touches the surface. When/if I share these things <with others> I imagine they wonder at the amount adversity in my life. Without this "simplistic" view...I think I might have lost my mind. And, I might remind you that "adversity" is subjective.
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It hard to imagine that I asked for the life I have. But looking back before time, before I came here, I really thought I could make a difference by being here.
I think that's why I get frustrated sometimes. I don't feel like I am making a big enough impact in this world. Then there are those times or escape from time that I see beyond my physical existence and I know I am causing sparks to be elevated. Then I return this illustion of reality and the feeling flood my being again.
Perhaps that is what separates the things, these feelings. It seems that feelings get in the way effecting things in the restraint of time. It seems on those occassion that I am given a reprieve from time, there are no negative feelings, or perhaps no feelings at all. Things are seen not as good or bad, just as they are. Amazing!!! Now I have my work cut ou for me to control or nuetralize my feelings By this I do not mean escape them, but they are only as real as I allow them to be. Awesome!
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"Let us make man in our image," may be interpreted that G-d meant that the created man must help in the self development process to raise himself to the highest potential that he was born with including moral and ethical behavior, righteous and charitable demeanor, and of course intellectual and technical skills. "Let us" refers to G-d and man, just as Hashem gave us the wheat, but it takes man to grow, harvest, mill it, and bake the bread.
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I have experienced horrible pain in this life and I know I chose this experience. I was physically and sexually abused by my father and a husband. I was told the reason why I chose to go through this experience; I also know that it will not happen anymore.
I cannot speak for others who feel they did not choose the hardships in their current life. I ask them, therefore, to do the same and not say for me what I know or feel.
Yes, this piece is simplistic, but perhaps it is due to the immaturity of some of the souls that read it.
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Be humble, for we are servants of the Lord. If evil or bad things exist in this world, it's because of our sins. G-d created Eden for us. And Eden would still be here for us, had we not chosen to sin. G-d created the world, perfect in every way. We are the ones that took it all for granted, by making the wrong choices. This is the world we made for ourselves, it's up to each and every one of us to make it better. Regardless of what anyone thinks. We have a direct link to one another by the choices we make, and by those that were made before we got here. Every action has a reaction. This is why the book of laws and instructions (THE TORAH) was given to us. To help us with that, that is within our reach....
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I am shocked and amazed at all the vitrol displayed in the comments by several people claiming that bad things that people do to others is a part of God's doing.
NOT SO! That is part of the choice that God gives human beings - to follow His teachings or do bad things at any givnen moment.
We must not blame God for the failings of people done by conscious or unconscious choice.
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Why do we refuse to take total responsibility for the life experience we have? Is Torah lying? Can a person actually be a victim; totally out of control and at the mercy of the elements, other humans or circumstance? God gives us the choice before each incarnation to face the rest of our journey. To face the risks, the threats, the odds...to be a "human" again. We are here because we said, "Yes...bring it on, God, let me find the courage to seek my reason for being." It's silly to change one's mind halfway through the game.
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I think that the author here is really stating that we have chosen to be born and placed in "life on Earth." What happens to us while we are here is not necessarily because we have chosen it to happen.
Life here on Earth is full of circumstances. Some of which occur because we have chosen a certain path, thereby our own doing. Other circumstances which occur to us is because of something someone has done to us, not of our doing at all. An example of this would be someone violently shaking a baby and causing damage. The Baby did not choose that to happen. The Baby simply chose to be born and placed in "life on Earth."
I think that is the intended meaning of the author. I hope I have made myself clear.
Thank you for reading this.
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Way too simplistic. İt is much more complicated than this and not exactly 100% under human control and choice as claimed
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Rabbi Yehudah Chitrik passes on this comment from the Alter Rebbe:
There are souls that knock on the gates of Gan Eden and beg to be allowed to descend to this world, so that they can do Mitzvot and learn Torah.
They even agree to spend their lives in poverty, begging from door to door.
Not every such request is granted . . .
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Maybe they ment that you can choose to be born or not, but you can't choose in which family you will end up.
I was abused from a few months old until the age of 18 when I moved out. I didn't choose for that, but I can't say I'm not happy with my life the way it is now.
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What about the ones who died due to racial or religious tragedy just because they were born? It does not make sense. But may the Almighty bless you and yours with good health, success, and happiness.
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Now that I read all these responses it has given me more of a perspective. However I believe that G-D put us all here to balance His Justice scales through our tragedies, gains, losses and lives in general. Evil must be exposed, and our human tragedies on this planet help to expose it for what it is.I sent you a comment yesterday. You no doubt will totally disagree with, that's ok, All through Jewish history the prophets were disagreed with, stoned and maligned, what else is new? G-d is 1x1x1=ONE. All the theories on earth cannot change that. GOD bless you sincerly.
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I am a wife and mother, my husband died of cancer very young and we had two young sons. my oldest son was killed overseas. my youngest son died of cancer last year, before he died he told me he believed he had told G-d that he could go through this challenge before he was born. My heart was broken, I had never heard any one say this before. We deal with good and evil everyday, yes evil people are going to do evil things. G-d does not make man do evil we have a choice, but G-d also has a perfect plan when someone hurts another person . G-d takes that evil , and if you will open your eyes and heart to G-d every day he will use that for his perfect plan...
I believe I would of died of a broken heart for all my family to be gone but, I never thought G-d killed them, with the help of a wonderful Chabad Rabbi I know G-d had a perfect plan and I believe we had a choice before we were born.
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To those who think that it is simplistic rubbish to say that we chose our lives with all its hardships I would like to ask them to think of a senario:- You have just died and are before the ultimate judge God. He says to you that everything you ever wanted - money, love fame everything will be yours in your next incarnation exept there was one little discrepency that you must atone for. the sin is for each individual reader to imagine according to his/her conscience.
You agree that you would do anything to relieve your soul of this burden so as to start a new life as the richest most adored man - everything you could dream of and a happy and long life- Then God says OK. for you to atone for your past life´s errors I will only grant you the life you ask for if you agree to an interim life as a blind man who cannot walk and suffers ridicule and scorn for 90 years. You weigh this tragic life with the promise of a dream life after it. The choice is yours - WHAT WILL YOU CHOSE?
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Why would one think that a soul standing before the ALMIGHTY G-D would bargain for money, love and fame. In the higher realms money and fame mean nothing. It is only in physical realm that "things" are needed. There are many rich and famous miserable people who do not recognize love because they are too busy with their " things". G-D's presence is so powerful that a soul can see and understand things as they truely are. It is not likely that a soul would be bargaining HIM from a selfish motive.
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This answer does seem to over simplify things and you can look at that as insensitive. However I personally would rather believe that I cannot see the whole picture and if I could I would accept my life with its burdens.
I think the answer is not what the author thought of himself rather it is based on the Torah. If you have a problem with the Anecdote used you have a problem with Torah not with Chabad or the Author. I have experienced many difficulties in life and I appreciate the valiant effort made in trying to reconcile one of life's hardest questions. The bright side of the answer is that the pain in my life must be almost over because even if I saw the whole picture I would have never thought I could take much more. Moshiach Now!
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Me, I've been through a lot of suffering, in my life, and even though a person never wants to go through tragedies, these situations only have the purpose to make us grow and learn how to reach higher spiritual levels. The article was absolutely right, because this is the only proof that we always choose our destiny and those tragedies are the result of our mistakes. When you sow roses you always reap roses. Blessed be The Lord!!.
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I had to write again after some thought.
What I hope no one is doing, is justifying ANYONE else's pain by using the philosophy stated in the article (that they chose freely to come down and experience life here). I think is the basic fear that the article creates in those who simply do not have the spiritual tools to understand what they're going through.
If you believe you chose to be here, fine. But do not EVER use your own spiritual journey or convictions as a yardstick by which to compare others, or think others do not deserve to be IN pain from their trials here.
Justify your own pain. Anyone else's is off limits. Until Moshiach gets here, there is still too much unfathomable pain in the world to simply intellectualize (i.e., intellectualize in a spiritual way).
So, as the Jews say, "Moshiach NOW!"
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The book "Many Llives, Many Masters", has an account of a soul that agreed (offered?) to be born with an "upside down heart" and pass away after several months.
It is one of the most powerful parts of the book. Check it out!
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The poet Tzvi Yayir has a poem about souls touring Gan Eden, who see an exquisite, dazzling palace.
When they seek to enter, they are told that this palace is only for those who give up their lives "Al Kiddush Hashem".
Whereupon they express their eagerness to pay the price, and are sent down to earth. . .
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Creator did not say, 'Yanki I am giving you a gift called free-will. Rather He gave us the gift called 'mind', a spark from the Fire Itself, and with this mind/spirit came our enabling to choose.
He Breathed 'choice' into us.. to choose between Goodness (His realm) and Badness (our limited realm). Thus, our choices are inherent in our 'thinking' ability ... the mind is the battlefield of choices... to do/thus Be good or to do/thus Be evil.
What has all this to do with our being made in Creators' Image/Likeness? The ' image' is our spirit/spark reflecting Spirit/Fire. But, remember, it is all about Choice. So the question remains - Who is Torah/Creator referring to as 'us and our'? My answer is ... To the First Manifestation of Himself already existing in His limitless Realm, and/or to that which was inherent 'within' Himself who He was now beginning to 'call forth' as His Family or Authority over His Creation. In other words, He was Talking to Himself. Or, 'Thinking out loud'. Shalom!
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Although my Torah journey has barely begun, several facts, I deem indisputable. Number One: the Torah is the work of the almighty G-d. Before you attempt to critisize an author who has published a story on a chabad website you should understand the great lengths both the author and the chabad have gone to verify the sources from which the story is gleaned. While i might try to disagree--where are my sources?
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Yes, bad things do happen to good people. I would like to think that the story is not meant to imply that the bad things that happen to people are their fault. Instead, it is a constructive way to look at the suffering that we all endure (to various degrees). That it is our soul's way of growing (not necessarily because we were bad before, but as a way to move us forward). Perhaps to help move other people forward in their spiritual development, including those that may victimize us, and those that learn lessons from our lives. Finaly, with free choice, at the very least we can chose how to react. We don't need to agree with a wrong done to us, but we can try to rise above it by being better and kinder ourselves and to ourselves.
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I, too, believe that our souls chose our bodies, our lives and our circumstances based on lessons we had to learn this time around. I do think that whether we are humanly conscious of it or not, we did choose to be here on a soul level for certain reasons. Very metaphysical, indeed, but it resonates true for me.
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Our birth is a free gift resulted from the love and passion and hope between our parents, to guide our free will, so it serves us well as it has our forefathers on this only living planet within our gifted universe. What you do and how, is why The Torah is to guide us...
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The tziddikim have always fasinated me. I believe that many died in the Shoah. If reincarnation is possible, my whole family perished and I was born almost immediately into a white Southern Protestant family, but luckily, I was skeptical and didn't become prejudiced. All of my life I have been searching for my grandfather, who must have been a rabbi. Years later, I realize that I "had one via radio" each Sunday morning for about 16 years. I met him once. This article left me in tears. Why would I choose this life among religious intolerant persons...
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How do you explain the horrors that the colored races have endured due to their skin tone? Why would they ask to be born that way if they new what to expect? What about the Jewish revolt 66AD where jews died, Hadrians attack against the Jews?
May the Alimghty bless you and give you wisdom.
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I thought this article was really awesome. Thank you for writing this truly magnificent piece.
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I am a Christian. I believe that God has chosen us to be born from the beginning of time, we don't choose to be born. We do choose to become what God wants us to be or to not do what God wants us to do. If we choose God's way, we will follow a plan for our lives that is determined by God before we were born.
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l believe with every bone in my body that i asked to be born into this world and live out the experiance i choose for myself. for me when reading some of the negative comments being made i realise that some are thinking that thier earthly life is all that there is while my belief is that life is a tool i use to experiance who i am and therfore who i am not. i also believe that we are all one.
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I very much doubt that I chose, at any point, to be born into the circumstances I was born into. I have not been ABLE to do mitzvot at all. I was too mentally ill most of my life to do them.
I would never have chosen to have a useless life, of no help to anyone. I find this insinuation that I "chose" this, to be insulting.
God does not have to take responsiblity for it. Man has to take responsibility for how bad off the world is. I never chose to be born into my circumstances. If I did, then God blackmailed me somehow.
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This to me is a rather simple subject. But then I tend to see things in black and white, but from all directions too. But it all comes down to this. God is our Father. He created Man from the beginning. He who created us is our Father, going all the way back to Adam. Many people look at God as though he were some super being toying with us for his amusement. But I do not. I see him for the loving Father that he is. Wanting to create children of his own, to love and teach. But to the subject. Yes I believe we chose to be born. Wanting to be like Dad, and having his knowledge and wisdom. But in order to have this, we had to be taught. And the best education is exsperiance. We had to live it. Though we may not have known the true pain and sorrow we would endure. But we just had to do it. Wether we were Angels or Souls, we had no life exsperiance. No emotions and so on. We were in darkness, but life would enlighten us. When we asked for life we asked for tribulation. We asked for it.
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I agree with the author, and while it is very painful to think that we might have chosen to live lives of suffering, I think it is for the betterment of our souls somehow. To the person who had a mental illness: it is not your fault you had it, and my granma was schizophrenic. It was not a wasted life, because she had my father and without him I wouln't be here. You are here for a reason and matter as much as the rest of us; you can still do mitzvot and have an impact on others and the world. Also I think the people who are suffering, like starving people in Africa/handicapped children, etc, may have sacrificed their own happiness in order for others to help them through mitzvot for their own betterment. In this way, it is a great sacrifice to them, and not such a waste. It is like a rich man giving tzeddakah, because without the poor man to give it to, he cannot perform that mitzva. It is up to us to take care of each other, by following the Torah.
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People, really, did you miss the part where it is stated in the article that this is one interpretation of many? No need to be so nasty. I find it a fascinating concept to consider.
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In reply to Anonymous May 27, 2007, you are right it was only one of the choices. However, in the Torah when Hashem wants to make a decision about humans, HE asks other humans.
Remember when HE sent rain to destroy the world, again HE used a man, Noah, to build the ark and warn other humans.
Remember when HE led the children of Israel out of Empty, HE used a man, Moses.
Do you remember the account of Sodom and Gomorrah? Hashem did not spare or destroy those cities based on angelic views, but that of a human, Jonah.
Time and space does on permit to give many other examples of Hashem using humans when there was a decision to be made humans.
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I suspect that all I asked for before my birth was to be safe from the Holocaust, which had already started. So I was born in the USA, but in a VERY problematic situation.
However, I know that I wanted to be born. We all did. After all, each of us consists of a fertilized egg. Ours was the sperm that won the race! We worked hard to get into this world, and now that we're here, we want to make it turn out OK.
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Thank you for a very multi-level article! I especially enjoyed the village square. What a wonderfull way of describing the journey into matter.
But there is another interpretation as well, that only Kabbalists keept from the profane during the turmoils of the the fish (that we are now thankfully leaving). For G-d's breath was injected into man, who indirectly mean that we are all, jews as gentiles, the manifestation of God force. Beyond personality and identity there is but one voice that speaks in the hearts of all living things: I am.
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omg its amazing i never gt this answer before its soo simple ...and amazing thank u u rlly helpd me a lot
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There is more to abuse than the physical.
Far more important is what the child tells itself about the abuse.
The Torah says not to think of oneself as wicked, because this will make it difficult to live righteously.
If the child tells itself, or if someone else convinces the child to believe, "This is happening because I have a bad soul that deserves to be punished; I am hopelessly wicked," then that child is doomed. It will forever look for punishment for its badness.
It is this, not pettiness or laziness or the lack of courage, that makes some so angry at the "simplistic" message that we "chose" our fate. We did NOT choose to think of ourselves as hopelessly wicked. We were tricked into this false idea and then were stuck with this idea, so VERY hard to get over, no matter how hard we try. That voice in the back of the head is overpowering.
And so to us, this article seems to say, "It's your own fault. You asked for it. You ARE hopelessly wicked. Shame on you!"
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Before we're born, Jewish souls are in a certain proximity to His presence. I thought that chassidus says that we don't want to go into physical bodies.
Is this the case even though we agreed prior?
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As long as we happen to be in this world, most of life is very frequent and seemingly very small choices--whether or not to smile and say hello, what to think about during prayer, whether to pursue one's talents even if it could mean failure. G-d didn't ahve to give us the power to choose. The fact that He did must mean that there is a certain path that he is challenging us to take. It's a different path for each individual soul.
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I have always wondered who this 'us' was referring to as well as let us make him in 'our' image. I love the explanation you offer and it really rings true. Thanks for settling this once disturbing issue for me.
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I have a friend who is suffering from ALS. He is completely paralyzed, and can't talk and is dying a slow, horrible death
Is this the life he wants? No one would want this! Can anyone explain how one can say that this is the life he wants?.
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It is clear truth understood by all mature adults, that no one can ask to be born before one is born and that our birth is a free gift resulted from the love and passion and shared hope between our 2 natural parents, which by culture are granted as the first adults to guide our free will and help our free choices - in hope it serves us well as it has served our blessed forefathers who were chosen by Alohim on this only living planet within our gifted universe.
What you do and how, is why, is by employing your gifted and selected wisdom, and where The Torah is the best original eminent truth in writing to help guide us in gaining the blessed benefits of creation and the known blessed evolution...
Some unfortunately, are born without all the Natural blessings of full health and capabilities, due to genetic and lifestyle wrongs the parents must have been aware of or tested for avoiding, by employing our honest sub-conscience and modern scientific methods.
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The lesson here as I see it is that our souls were with G-d before coming to this world. It is not clear that the soul knew what hardships would be endured, but nonetheless in complete faith and trust in G-d the soul come here understanding that whatever it would go through would serve a purpose higher than we can comprehend on this level. To me this article is about the eteranl love and perfect faith of the soul for the Creator.
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In Pirkei Avos it says that we are born and die against our will. How does this go together?
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Shalom .. Life is a Mystery! What occurs BEFORE we are born is G-d's business, not ours. We can only guess. AFTER we are born we are given the choice as to how we live our lives. Either for good or for evil. And then, we return to our Creators' domain!
In between, we are given 'tests' as Job was given. But we do not choose our tests, either before or after birth, rather, we are given a choice as to how we RESPOND to G-d's testings.
In short -- we do not choose our life before birth. We are given the gift of life, and thereafter it is our responsibility to make proper choices to live our lives in love and fear of G-d.
Why would anyone choose to dwell in a physical body that has been 'cursed' with disease and suffering, even if assured that in the end all would be just dandy? For what purpose?
Our Creator desires that we be blessed and in 'that place' of beauty and glory one can not possibly, imagine, far less, choose human suffering.
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When Gd was about to give the Torah, the notice went out to all the souls, and those who wanted to participate in the Giving of the Torah came and stood at Mt. Sinai. And whenever a Jewish mother is about to give birth, she gets a soul that CHOSE to stand and receive the Torah.
When husband and wife make love, all the sperms swim as fast as they can, and the one that wins the race gets to be born. We are all the result of our little sperm swimming fast enough to win. So we chose at that level.
But some people--people who shake infants, people who put a baby in a frying pan, people who rape a baby, even people who take a strap every night to a child too young to talk-- should not be allowed to have chldren. G-d is one of the three involved in creating a child, and could refuse children to such people.
Instead, parents produce a gifted child, bright, beautiful, talented, and rage at the baby, whip the baby, set the baby up to be raped by multiple attackers over the years. TBC
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The soul wanted to be born, but wanted to be safe.
Instead, it lived in constant fear, in the certainty that if its own parents wanted it dead, all the more so everyone else also wanted it dead, it was an intruder in the universe, it was always checking out signals looking for a sign of disapproval that might mean an attack, a strap, a rape, a murder attempt....
And ashamed of having intruded into a world that hated it.
And not even aware of these background assumptions. Merely aware of feeling inept, incompetent, uncomfortable. Not aware of the fear or the anger which it spent all its energy stuffing down. Finally around age 45 it lacked energy to stuff it down and began eating and got fat. At no time did it actualize its talents or make the contribution it was genetically programmed to make. It was useless to itself and to the world, it knew little or no joy, just occasional moments of being itself. Its whole life was a waste. Why was this soul have been sent to such parents?
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