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Two Groschen



"The Rebbe must know something we do not," whispered disciples of Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev. "Perhaps he sees a terrible calamity decreed for the coming year, G-d forbid"

21 Comments Posted
Reader Comments
Posted: Apr 29, 2004
There are many in Zion today that say G-d has forsaken them. fortgotten them. Who, Who, will pay the price for them, who will accend the Holy Hill and sacrifice for them. Do we care not more about ourselves than others, has that ever been the heart of HaShem.
Come Mosiach!!!
Posted By Israel

Posted: Oct 4, 2008
Two Groschen
I was hoping the Rabbi, after speaking with his Gabbai, and realizing how needy this woman was, would have given his entire collection to the woman; or at least, returned to her the groschen. As you can see, I take her 4 groschen more seriously than I take the rabbi's prayers. Her 4 groschen are today's dinner; the rabbi's prayers are a request that might or might not be honored. Somehow, the rabbi could have included her and her child in his prayers and at and the same time, returned to her her badly needed (and borrowed) money. The gabbai, speaking in the name of the rabbi, is making the woman borrow money to benefit the rabbi (and therefore benefiting himself, the gabbai). In effect, the rabbi and gabbai are benefiting by the woman getting herself into greater debt. And what does the woman get? She gets an invitation into the shul. That's a sad turn of events.
Posted By Harold Braunstein, Brooklyn, NY
via projectneshama.com

Posted: Oct 7, 2008
Dear Harold,
We don't know all of the details of the story. It is possible that the rabbi did return the money. He could have helped her out financially right after Yom Kippur.
But that’s not the point here. The story is illustrating what SHE was willing to do for HER child. And that we ask Hashem (G-d) to do the same for us. In effect, they are all benefiting.
Gmar Chasima Tovah!
Posted By Levi Yitzchok Siman, Cape Town, South Africa

Posted: Oct 7, 2008
and you wonder why people leave judaism...
While I think that I understood the analogy of the story, I find the whole story a disgrace. Is that what you want people to think about Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev? That he would only pray for someone if he was financially compensated? It is stories like these that turn people away from Judaism. Next year before yom kippur, I would like to read something a little bit inspiring on chabad.org which usually provides attention-grabbing and motivating articles.
Posted By Anonymous, malmo, sweden

Posted: Oct 7, 2008
Two Groshen
Maybe I missed the point but why did the rebbe put this woman through such a trial? Did he need her to suffer more just to get G-d's attention? Were not people suffering enough? Didn't the rebbe know how poor she was? What was it that the rebbe saw that was terrible enough to do torture this woman...Maybe I missed the point.
Posted By Steven Israel, Nampa, Idaho

Posted: Oct 7, 2008
Two Groschen
Perhaps this woman needed some sort of soul rectification and the chance to put herself aside in order for her beloved child to live! The Rebbe must have found it hard NOT to make an exception, but in the end, ahe sacrificed her own life for her child's. A true mother...
Posted By Anonymous, norwelll, MA

Posted: Oct 7, 2008
The poor, elderly lady
The Rabbi shouldl have given all of the money to the poor and elderly widow who had sacrificed for her own beloved son; she could then have easily paid the Rabbi the sum he was demanding for the Yom Kippur Blessing, and he, the Rabbi, could then have most properly blessed her for a year of Life, Health and Happiness. Poverty can be unbearable, and we should help the poor at all times as we also so treat the Stranger in our own midst!
Posted By Arden Beyer, Cliffside Park, NJ, USA!

Posted: Oct 8, 2008
To Harold, perhaps Rabbi levi Yitzchak understood that the donation of two groshen would do more in the heavens than could his prayers.
Posted By Ari Edson, thronhill, ont

Posted: Oct 8, 2008
Two Groshen
To Gmar Chasima Tovah ... you are right; we don't know all the details. So we can only comment on what we DO know. We know she is poor, that supply and demand (that's clearly implied in the story) makes the Rabbi increase the price of each kvitel, and that the Rebbe's says "no exceptions." And you mention that the story shows how she is willing to sacrifice for her son. True, but many mothers do that; even just by having children. Many forfeit entering the business world and working with adults, all for giving time to baby talk and diapers (that's also a sacrifice or giving one's life for children – and absolutely it is noble). And we know that the Rebbe *might* give some of the poor woman's money to charity (at best, taking money from one impoverished woman and giving it to another). We can only judge the actions in the story by what we know, not by what we hope. Sorry, the Rebbe should show more compassion, fewer tears and more action – something tangible like returning the money.
Posted By Harold Braunstein, Brooklyn, NY
via projectneshama.com

Posted: Oct 8, 2008
Two Groshen
To Ari Edison ... we don't know what the Rabbi understands about heaven. What we DO know is that the two groshen would help provide for her dinner table, and all the more so since she is now in debt and now might also have to put off tomorrow's dinner. No, there is too much in the story about grabbing money from an impoverished widow (my two cents worth in Brighton Beach). By the way, a healthy and happy new year to Rabbi Zusha Winner and his family.
Posted By Harold Braunstein, Brooklyn, NY
via projectneshama.com

Posted: Oct 8, 2008
Two Groshen
To Anonymous in Norwell, MA ... and what is Shloimehleh going to do next year without his mother after she sacrifices her life? The Rebbe is a party to this sacrifice, Will he, if necessary, stay home next year, cook, clean, change diapers, and take care of her only child? Nobody in this world should be a party to another person's life sacrifice; nor second guess that someone needs soul rectification; that is God's domain.
Posted By Harold Braunstein, Brooklyn, NY
via projectneshama.com

Posted: Oct 8, 2008
The Comments on this Story are Pathetic
I suugest to the editors that they post a "Dummy Alert" on stories like these. "If you subscribe to The Nation//voted for Hillary/object to the gender-biased place name "Manhattan"/fill in the blank, you are too stupid to read this article"
Posted By Amanda, Personhattan, NY

Posted: Oct 8, 2008
Of all the Jews in all the years, Who loved the Jew more then Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev?
Posted By Eli Epstein, Tampa, Fla, USA

Posted: Oct 8, 2008
Two Groschen
As with many Chassidic stories, we take for granted that you are already familiar with the main characters and their "modi operandi". Knowing Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev and his unquestioning support of every individual Jew, it goes without saying that every single penny raised will go to the poor and needy. Regarding the widow, although her torment of the day was personally challenging, rest assured that by the end of the journey, she too is aware of the goal achieved by Rabbi Levi Yitzchak and is proud to have been a partner in uplifting the blessings of us all that year.
Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev is also known for always looking at others with a good eye and finding their redeemable values. A fine character trait we can all learn to emulate.
Posted By Dovid Grossman, Chicago, IL

Posted: Oct 9, 2008
Its not a Rabbi,a Rebbe -> response to Two Grosche
As we know Rebbe Levi Yitzchak from Berditchev was the one in the generation with the greatest power to pray. For sure he knew what Tikkun he could do for the woman and the whole generation. The woman unknowingly served a holy purpose for the whole generation and showed her true compassionate Jewish heart and absolute self sacrifice. The Rebbe from Berditchev would in any case have prayed for the whole community and each and everyone, the two roschen were just part of the obstacle to be worthy to deserve the tikkun. As we know that he was extremely charitable, guess where all the groschen went? The woman and her son were for sure invited to the yom tov meal and sustained by the Rebbe and his Gabbai in the following years. There was a strong bond of unity in these times in the communities and especially in Berditchev. So please calm down, everything was right, what was done. In any case the Rebbe from Berditchev knew more than 100% what he was doing and all his doing is Torah.
Posted By Daniel

Posted: Oct 12, 2008
Two Groschen
Thank you, Daniel. What this world needs are more peace makers like you. You have the qualities of an excellent representative of our United Nations. Our next president will be looking for a good Secretary of State; for that position you would have my vote. If you say the Rebbe knows what he is doing, and that "all his doing is Torah," I'll take your word for it.
Posted By Harold Braunstein, Brooklyn, NY - USA
via projectneshama.com

Posted: Apr 7, 2009
copper coins.
a real version of the poor widow with two copper coins- Where your heart is your treasure will be
Posted By David, Springfiled Gardens , NY

Posted: Apr 7, 2009
Two Groschen
I'm sorry but I'll stick to my original point. As far as saying "the Rebbe must know something we do not know," I would answer that any story to teach morals, proper behavior, "derech eretz" should first be taken at its face value (what is it saying that is obvious) and here what it is saying is outrageous (see my earlier point).

And as for reading into the story (what the Rebbe might know or should know or can know) doesn't add to the lesson of the story. And keep in mind that we can do that "reading into a story" with any story, or for that matter, any event in history. Some of the worst villains in history, so bad I'm reluctant to mention names, might have known something we do now know, hardly justifying their actions.
Posted By Harold Braunstein, Brooklyn, NY
via projectneshama.com

Posted: Sep 25, 2009
Two Groschen
I couldn't help but think, as I was reading the story, about another lesson in it. Where were the wealthier citizens, who are called upon to "take the place of G-d Almighty" by helping those in need who come to them? Surely the widow went to many others, asking for help, before this holiest of days. Yet, the most charitable, the one who "took the place" of G-d Almighty, was, on that day, the poorest of them all, who was willing to sacrifice much more than mere money for another. What a lesson there!
Posted By Theodora Dorf, Raleigh, NC

Posted: Sep 27, 2009
The Moral Is
To clarify: Rabbi Levi Yitzchak's charging of two groschen for each constituent was a ploy, to get this widow to put her son before herself. He knew that there were people as impoverished as her, and certainly a situation like this would arise. The point of the ploy was to ensure a good sweet year for the Jewish People by challenging G-d to be as compassionate on His People as this woman was for her child. What he later did with the money was the same as what he always did with this kind of money. Knowing a little about Rabbi Levi Yitzchak's love for every Jew, it is reasonable to assume he used it to help the poor. This story was not meant to help the widow in particular, or to present her personally with a challenge. I suggest that reader's familiarize themselves with more stories of Rabbi Levi Yitzchak to understand his modus operandi.
Posted By Anonymous, Davis

Posted: Sep 27, 2009
The point of many objections to my comments is that anyone who knows this particular Rabbi of Berditchev knows that he would only have good motives at heart. I've also heard good things about this rabbi however, when telling a story with a moral and ethical message, the story teller should never assume that the reader personally or by hearsay knows any of the characters in the story. The entire Torah is teaching us moral lessons with G-d in the lead role. We all know of His kindliness and compassion, etc., and notwithstanding, we hear of His virtues over and over again; the Torah never asks us to take G-d's attributes for granted.

So this story should not require the reader to take Rabbi Berdichev's virtues for granted. If the good rabbi has a reason for his actions, those reasons should be make clear to the reader. There is no reason the reader should leave the story remembering how that woman left "heartbroken" and put herself in debt adding that indebtedness to her impoverishment.
Posted By Harold Braunstein, Brooklyn, NY
via projectneshama.com

 


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